VSDS Survey Needs Your Response

[Guest Close rmoore]

A Posting From Ron Moore, Forum Moderator

The possibility of having a Vehicle Safety Data Sheet(VSDS) for every new vehicle is moving closer to reality. In June 1998, I published an article on this concept in Firehouse magazine. I wanted two locations on every vehicle where we could go to get info on where the airbags were, where the battery, fuel tank, seatbelt pretensioner, etc is located, or if there were any other items of safety concern that we should know about.

I want two standard locations that would remain the same regardless of what type of vehicle was involved. I prefer one outside location and one inside location.

VSDS is simply a diagram of the vehicle, smaller than a recipe card, that gives this info in one glance in plain English so everyone can understand at a crash scene.

Now, these next few messages provide you the update. There is also a form included in these posts that you can complete and submit to a special committee.

Thanks and I hope you participate in this survey. Your vote CAN make a big difference in us getting what we want.

Ron Moore
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by rmoore (edited 01-02-2001).]

[Guest Close rmoore]

This is the official request from the Vice chairman of the IAFC Transportation Rescue Committee.

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Dear Fellow Rescuers:

Please read the following message and reply to the attachment. This is good news and could mean a change in the way we do rescue.

Thank you,
Mark Uttley, Vice Chairman
International Association of Fire Chiefs
Transportation Emergency Rescue Committee

[Guest Close rmoore]

Now this is the email from a firefighter who serves on the committee established by the automakers. They are requesting our feedback. Here is Tom's explaination of what this is all about.

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-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Lindeman
Subject: SAE Airbag Identification Taskforce

In February 2000 the Sterling Heights (MI)Fire Department was approached and asked to participate in a Task Force along with representatives from DiamlerChrysler Corporation, Ford Motor Company, General Motors Corporation, Volkswagon of America, and various other rescue equipment and engineering specialists.

The goal of this task force is to improve safety on vehicle accident scenes through providing emergency response personnel a workable means of identifying the types and locations of airbags and other supplemental
restraint devices that currently pose a risk to firefighters, police, and EMS in the performance of their duties. The findings of the SAE Identification Task Force have the potential to affect the safety of emergency responders by aiding in the location and identification of these hidden hazards posed by the very equipment designed to protect those involved in vehicle accidents.

The Task Force needs your input. The IAFF has agreed to support this effort and will be publishing a brief survey in the January 2001 IAFF magazine nationwide.

I have attached a copy of this survey and ask you to please take a few moments to look over the options being considered and respond with your comments.

Feel free to pass this along to any/all emergency responders that you feel would like to share input in this endeavor.

For further information, feel free to call 810,446,2982 ,
email [email protected], or write:
Ann Marie Piwonski
Task Force Chairperson
SAE Airbag Identification Task Force
Diamler Chrysler Corporation
800 Chrysler Drive
Auburn Hills, MI 48326

Thank you,

Capt. Tom Lindeman
Sterling Heights Fire Department
Training Division

[Guest Close MetalMedic]

Before I go sending e-mail recommendations... let me give my opinion for the sake of discussion... perhaps we can them come up with a "class-action" response from the forum??

Originally posted by rmoore:
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a. ___#4__ A label placed on the windshield containing specific restraint information.

#1 - Of the options, this has the most promise for being something we can use safely. Of course this is one of two locations, so we need to put the other location remote to this since in an underride, you can't usually look at the windshield.


c. __#2___ A removable laminated card behind the license plates containing specific restraint information.

#2 - I like this as the 2nd location along with the windshield. It is remote enough that you have a better chance of one of the two being available to you.


b. ___#1__ A permanent label on both visors containing specific restraint information.

#3 - This requires you to gain access to the interior in order to "study" the card... and you will likely be in the "deployment" zone while trying to get to the visors.


d. __#3___ Specific restraint information inside the gas fill door.

#4 - You may have to force this door open on cars that have releases inside. The other problem I see are cars that have the cap integrated into the exterior and therefore, no door.


g. __#5___ A removable laminated card in a standardized location within the occupant compartments, which would contain specific restraint information.

#5 - Again, we need to access the passenger compartment, but if you put it somewhere away from the "deployment" zone, it is a workable option.


e. __#6___ A booklet to be kept in the Fire/Rescue team with specific restraint information for all vehicles. The information in the above mentioned booklet could be maintained by NHTSA, SAE, Manufactures, or Fire/Rescue community.

#6 - Who will be sure that EVERY fire/rescue unit has access to a CURRENT book? We have seen what headaches we have with the DOT Haz-Mat books and the occasional wrong information they contain.


f. __#7___ Additional information containing specific restraint information added to the VIN plate.

#7 - If you can get access to a VIN number... and then you still need some reference to check the VIN number against what the VSDS is for that vehicle.


h. __#8___ Labels which denote a standardized alpha numeric coding system, for the battery and specific restraint system locations. This code could be place on the vehicle in several standardized locations. The code definitions (pictograms) could be maintained and published by NHTSA. Fire and Rescue personnel could pull the data from a web-site or published book.

#8 - Again, this requires maintaining a current reference resource and someone locally to either maintain the department's books or access the website. And if you have a slow server, using dial-up or you PC crashes, the website is worthless.

[/B]

Now I am curious about why somewhere in the engine compartment is not one of the suggestions. We genrerally are going to that location to disconnect the battery, so why not post this information there as ONE of the two locations? The trick would be to place it in a manner that it could survive a sizable front end impact and still be available and legible.

Looks like I am not too far off of Mr. Moore's recommendations... it will be interesting to see what the rest of you feel is best.


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Richard Nester
Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

[Guest Close Lewiston2Capt]

I am glad that this is making some progress, however, I will not be holding my breath. This may sound jaded but more often than not change is a slow slow process. I hope for all of our sake it happens.

Metal medic I am inclined to agree with you. However as Rons original posting states they are looking for one location on the interior and one on the exterior of the vehicle. My vote would be as follows:

a. ___#3__ A label placed on the windshield containing specific restraint information.

b. ___#1__ A permanent label on both visors containing specific restraint information.

c. __#2___ A removable laminated card behind the license plates containing specific restraint information.

d. __#4__ Specific restraint information inside the gas fill door.

e. __#6___ A booklet to be kept in the Fire/Rescue team with specific restraint information for all vehicles. The information in the above mentioned booklet could be maintained by NHTSA, SAE, Manufactures, or Fire/Rescue community.

f. __#7___ Additional information containing specific restraint information added to the VIN plate.

g. __#5___ A removable laminated card in a standardized location within the occupant compartments, which would contain specific restraint information.

h. __#8___ Labels which denote a standardized alpha numeric coding system, for the battery and specific restraint system locations. This code could be place on the vehicle in several standardized locations. The code definitions (pictograms) could be maintained and published by NHTSA. Fire and Rescue personnel could pull the data from a web-site or published book.




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Shawn M. Cecula
Captain
Lewiston Fire Co. No. 2

[Guest Close rmoore]

The Revised Airbag Survey Needs To Be Completed!

There are ten choices for VSDS placards to be put on new vehicles. Rate all ten according to your priority with your number 1 choice given the number 1, then your number 2 choice, and so on. Then send this entire survey to the coordinator listed at the bottom of this message.

a. _____ A label placed on the windshield containing specific restraint information.


b. _____ A permanent label on both visors containing specific restraint information.


c. _____ A removable laminated card behind the license plates containing specific restraint information.


d. _____ Specific restraint information placed inside the gas fill door with a permanent label.


e. _____ Specific restraint information placed inside the trunk lid with a permanent label.


f. _____ Specific restraint information placed on the underside of the hood with a permanent label.

g. _____ A booklet to be kept in the Fire/Rescue team with specific restraint information for all vehicles. The information in the above mentioned booklet could be maintained by NHTSA, SAE, Manufactures, or Fire/Rescue community.


h. _____ Additional information containing specific restraint information added to the windshield VIN plate.


i. _____ A removable laminated card in a standardized location within the occupant compartments, which would contain specific restraint information.


j. _____ Labels which denote a standardized alpha numeric coding system, for the battery and specific restraint system locations. This code could be place on the vehicle in several standardized locations. The code definitions (pictograms) could be maintained and published by NHTSA. Fire and Rescue personnel could pull the data from a web-site or published book.
Additional Comments
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________________________________________
Please e-mail, fax, or send surveys results to
Ann Marie Piwonski
Task Force Chairperson
DaimlerChrysler Corporation
CIMS 483-00-45
800 Chrysler Drive
Auburn Hills MI, 48326-2757
[email protected]
Fax 248 576-8782

[Guest Close rmoore]

Considering this newly revised VSDS Survey, here's my ballot that I'm sending in to the committee.

There really are only two location that we want for the VSDS placards; under the hood for the outside location and on the sun visors for the interior location. All the rest are either just nice to have locations or a bunch of crap.

Anyway, here's my vote. . . . .

a. ___3__ A label placed on the windshield containing specific restraint information.

b. __1___ A permanent label on both visors containing specific restraint information.
c. __4___ A removable laminated card behind the license plates containing specific restraint information.

d. __5___ Specific restraint information placed inside the gas fill door with a permanent label.

e. __6___ Specific restraint information placed inside the trunk lid with a permanent label.

f. __2___ Specific restraint information placed on the underside of the hood with a permanent label.

g. __8___ A booklet to be kept in the Fire/Rescue team with specific restraint information for all vehicles. The information in the above mentioned booklet could be maintained by NHTSA, SAE, Manufactures, or Fire/Rescue community.

h. __9___ Additional information containing specific restraint information added to the windshield VIN plate.

i. __7___ A removable laminated card in a standardized location within the occupant compartments, which would contain specific restraint information.

j. __10___ Labels which denote a standardized alpha numeric coding system, for the battery and specific restraint system locations. This code could be place on the vehicle in several standardized locations. The code definitions (pictograms) could be maintained and published by NHTSA. Fire and Rescue personnel could pull the data from a web-site or published book.
Additional Comments:
There are only two locations necessary for the Vehicle Safety Data Sheet(VSDS) placards. With the VSDS placard in both recommended locations on all vehicles, emergency responders and other concerned parties will have relevant safety information available in both an exterior and interior location.

The desired locations are #1, under the hood(exterior location) and #2, on both sun visors(interior location).

E-mail [email protected] or
Fax 248 576-8782

Ron Moore
University of Extrication
Firehouse magazine
214-728-6776

[Guest Close Carl Avery]

got a Note from Mark Uttley the other day, very few Surveys have been turned in (Less than a dozen) We all have been waiting for "Detroit" to Listen to Us, well now they are and a lot of us are being silent! GET UP AND DO SOME THING about fill out the Survey, and SEND of FAX it in! WE NEED THIS

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Rescue is the Art & Science of matching your tools, talents and tricks to needs of our customers!
Carl D. Avery

[Guest Close rmoore]

How To Submit Your Survey Form

Right now, the most effective method to get your voice and your vote heard on the VSDS topic is to copy the revised 10 location survey form from the post above, then paste it into your email message.

Place a number on each item, then email it, print and fax it, or snail mail it to;
Ann Marie Piwonski
Task Force Chairperson DaimlerChrysler Corporation CIMS 483-00-45 800 Chrysler Drive Auburn Hills MI, 48326-2757 [email protected] Fax 248 576-8782

[Guest Close Fyredog]

E-mail with reply submitted. I fully agree with Ron Moore's selections.

[Guest Close Chiefbeal]

While I agree with the locations discussed for the data sheets my concern is that auto mfg.s are not going to put information where it is available to airbag thieves. Yeah, I know most of them know moore (pun) about airbags and dismantling a vehicle than we do, but I think the mfg'r may not want the liability of "publishing" restraint locations. A simple bar code in multiple locations read by a hand held scanner could yield pertinent information to the proper people and keep it away from those that shouldn't have access to it. Just like to look at both sides of the coin.
I'm curious if anyone has heard of any mechanics being injured by these systems? I realize they have plenty of time to disable the battery of these systems but not all are electrical. My county safety officer was inquiring.

[Guest Close Lewiston2Capt]

The funny thing about people that want to steal stuff. If it required a $2,000 piece of equipment to read the bar codes they would just steal one of those too. It wont really be possible to keep those people that are on the wrong side of the law from doing what they want.

[Guest Close RJE]

Nah, they won't steal the scanner. They just ask their buddy who works at the body shop where they take stolen cars to be chopped.

[Guest Close DON DELANCEY]

A logical place to put vsds from my point of view would be to put a placard of some sort at the front of the vehicle possibly along side the vin# and one towards the rear of the vehicle possibly in the back window beside the "c" post like the vin is placed. The reason for this is that in a frontal collision the chance of the front placard being compromised is great, and there is less chance of damage to the rear of the vehicle, this is also true in reverse such as a rear end collision. This also makes sense in the fact that the majority of car fires are started in the engine compartment and burn towards the rear. In the instance of trucks the vsds could be placed behind the driver possibly on the "b" post. This solution that we are trying to reach is rather a tough one in the fact that there are so many different types of vehicles out there and there may not be a "one" simple solution.