If you are tired of rams slipping....

[TarHEEL Man]

If your dept has rams, it has always been difficult finding a good place to put the "heel" of the ram and have it hold while making a push.

The TarHEEL Ram Stabilizer is a new product designed and manufactured by Va. Md. Rescue Systems specifically for this application.

Powered by a hand pump, the TarHEEL can be
used anywhere along the rocker panel to insure a solid support to push from and
can be used with any brand rescue ram.

This post is only to inform those who do
not know that this type of tool is now available !

You can see it at
www.thetarheel.com

[This message has been edited by TarHEEL Man (edited 12-11-2000).]

[This message has been edited by TarHEEL Man (edited 12-13-2000).]

[This message has been edited by TarHEEL Man (edited 12-21-2000).]

[This message has been edited by TarHEEL Man (edited 12-22-2000).]

[ADSN/WFLD]

Well, it looks like it would work fine but why not just use the spreaders to bite onto the rocker panel?

Our local AMKUS rep stated that the spreaders can be used for that purpose.

Or just use the spreaders for the dash roll up and forget the ram.

Can that head be replaced with a door opening attachment (like the rabbit tool)?

[Carl Avery]

Let me start out with the Observation that I am not all that impressed wiht the tar heel. Let me also say this, I have a very respected colleague that Really Likes the tool. Now that I have said all that, I want to say this. I have some trouble with posts Like this. Ones that are basically Blatant advertisements. DO not Get me wrong. I have no Problem with the Likes of Mike Schmidt of ZMAG, or Chirs Pasto of Res-Q-Jack, or my pal Kevin Romer (our Local Hurst Rep) Offering their solutions to problems posted here. Matter of Fact I actually like to see them respond, but you may have noticed these guys do not create there own ADDS, just put their Solutions out for the rest of us to consider. IMHO this act is Just too Blatant!

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Rescue is the Art & Science of matching your tools, talents and tricks to needs of our customers!
Carl D. Avery

[JAMESBENNETT]

Mr. Avery I have to agree with you on that one. I read the forums to get new idea's and for help with current issue's, not to see the advertisement section. If the web-team would like to create an adver. forum for these kind of post I might even like to see them, but to do this as a post is not good for the spirit of the forum.

I must add that I am not familiar with this product, but we have a plate the came with a tip attachment set for our rams and it has help with this problem here. Using the spreader for this(clamping it down on the car to pry on) is not a smart use and is not recommended by the manufacturer, because the tools are not built to take this kind of pressure on the side of the tool. I also believe it voids the warranty. I also understand, and have done this myself in the past, that when a life is on the line you do what it takes. The tip attachments for the ram have worked well for us.

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SERVING FOR PRIDE
PROUD TO SERVE!

[MetalMedic]

I will 3rd the motion that I don't care for the "out of the blue" posting that is a veiled attempt at drumming some business.

With that said, let's take on the topic of the use of a spreader to accomplish a sturdy base for your ram. Actually, there are some hydraulic rescue tool companies who approve of this practice. Many of us have seen them do just as ADSN/WFLD describes during their demos. The problem I have with this, is that once you set your spreaders and engage the ram, you no longer have a spreader. If something changes in your situation that requires the function of the spreader, it is not a simple matter to just release the spreaders and put them to work.

We have had good luck with the simple "L" shaped piece of channel iron that has push points built into it that rests on the rocker panel. Another trick I have used is to take a halligan tool and drive the point into the rocker panel and use the duck-bill as your pushing base. Sure is a lot cheaper than using your spreaders to do the same job.



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Richard Nester
Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

[RSQLT43]

I also dont like this type of post, and if I remember correctly, this is not the first post of this type from this guy.

We also used the L shaped Ram Blocks, we have never had a problem with them.

We as a company have gone away from using the rams to roll the dash, we now prefer to lift or do a modified dash roll with the spreaders.

[This message has been edited by RSQLT43 (edited 12-12-2000).]

[JAMESBENNETT]

MetalMedic we use the Hurst Tool and we were told it would void the warranty on the arms of the spreader if used this way. I have seen the L-brackets, but have never used one. The plate we use has a slip-pin that holds it on the ram and we use a v-tip attachment for a strong grip on the "A" post. We still use the dash roll quite often and with good success. I have been to several classes and scene the "lift" done and I think you are given more room for extrication with the "roll" and they both take almost the same amount of effort and time? Since I have not use them both my opinion is very narrow minded. If you have found this,"The Lift" to be quicker or more safe than I would like to here why and some tips for getting it done right?

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SERVING FOR PRIDE
PROUD TO SERVE!

[This message has been edited by JAMESBENNETT (edited 12-13-2000).]

[MetalMedic]

Originally posted by JAMESBENNETT:
MetalMedic we use the Hurst Tool and we were told it would void the warranty on the arms of the spreader if used this way.

ACK!!! Some will actually admit that there is something a Hurst Tool CAN'T do???!!!

To be honest, I beleive the Pheonix also recommends against doing this. But I do believe it is the Amkus that I have seen demonstrating this technique.




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Richard Nester
Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

[Spirk]

o
Okay Guys,

First, I certainly agree with everyone who does not like this kind of post because of its Ad-Like quality.
Second, in the past, I have heard of clamping the Spreader unit onto the rocker panel to use as an anchor for the Ram. COMMON SENSE SAYS, (as well as many manufacturers) that the Spreader unit was not designed for this type of usage. Therefore, we have not done it. These tools are too expensive!!
Third, and maybe Mr. Moore can elaborate on this but, anyone who uses this technique today is looking for trouble! Crushing or cutting the rocker panel areas is taboo now due to the wiring that is chaneled through them. This wiring could be from one of the "New" hidden battery locations and/or for one or more "Airbag" system(s).
There are plenty of other ways, as many of you have stated, to anchor the Ram.
Let's all use our heads and stay safe!


Bill Spirka
Captain
Wil. F.D.

[Engine 224]

Don't use the spreader as a clamp. In addition to all of the other reasons mentioned, I have seen the top arm of the spreader slip and the bottom hold fast. This puts a tremendous side load on the hinge pins in a direction they were definitely NOT designed to handle. You could be in for a very expensive repair job.

P.S. Since the TarHEEL Man chose to abuse this forum with an advertisement, I feel free to mention it is a very expensive piece of equipment for a very specialized purpose.

[MetalMedic]

P.S. Since the TarHEEL Man chose to abuse this forum with an advertisement, I feel free to mention it is a very expensive piece of equipment for a very specialized purpose.[/B]

Since you brought it up... just what does the thing cost anyway???



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Richard Nester
Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

[mike m]

Originally posted by TarHEEL Man:
If your dept has rams, it has always been difficult finding a good place to put the "heel" of the ram and have it hold while making a push.

The TarHEEL Ram Stabilizer is a new product designed and manufactured by Va. Md. Rescue Systems specifically for this application.

Powered by a hand pump, the TarHEEL can be
used anywhere along the rocker panel to insure a solid support to push from and
can be used with any brand rescue ram.

This post is only to inform those who do
not know that this type of tool is now available !

You can see it at
www.thetarheel.com

[This message has been edited by TarHEEL Man (edited 12-11-2000).]

[This message has been edited by TarHEEL Man (edited 12-13-2000).]

[This message has been edited by TarHEEL Man (edited 12-21-2000).]

[This message has been edited by TarHEEL Man (edited 12-22-2000).]

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[mike m]

Originally posted by mike m:

i am new to this forum and i am not familiar with the politics,but i would like to respond.it has been my experience when using the rams with external devices is that the safety concerns far outweight the use of these devices.knowing the limitations of the tool and a good size up are paramount when performing a safe operation.when using the rams to displace the dash it is always a diffucult call when it comes to finding a suitable anchor point for the stationary part of the ram.while there are several good and useful methods a good sizeup is in order. i hope that many departments have it in their budgets to have all three sizes of rams,if not then alternative mehods have to be explored.one wy i feel is very useful,and my fellow colleagues may not agree with me is the use of the spreaders clamped to the rocker panel. there concerns that there will be excessive pressure on the arms of the spreaders.if there are proper relief cuts made in the A post that should reduce some of the sress on the jaws.my dept. has been teaching this evolution for some time,and with some good feedback from the field.i guess whomever you speak to at hurst you might get some conflicting viewpoints,but i do believe that the use of any external devices is not recommended.also the use of ample cribbing under your work and the proper stabilization of the vehicle is very important. thanks mike m

[Lewiston2Capt]

MetalMedic, I think I was quoted about 2500 Dolars per unit. and to effectively perform a dash roll you would need two.


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Shawn M. Cecula
Captain
Lewiston Fire Co. No. 2

[86Rescuetech]

With all of the new vehicles and configurations out there, maybe we need to have a forum for that. But you guys are right, not here. I have used the Holmotro ram supports with good success. My former department also has used the old 32A as a ram support, but then again, they were a very cheap company. I have tried making a pie cut or a straight cut in front of the b-post and putting the ram, head there. It worked on most models I tried. Yeah there are drawbacks to this method, but in a cheap department, you have to try anything.