Aic Chisel vs. Recip Saw

[tony peric]

My dept. has a new argument going on now.It's over buying a new recip saw vs.another air chisel. We do not own a recip saw at this time,I say buy a saw because of the numerous other uses other than auto ex.We have not used our air chisel in quite a while. My thoughts are while a chisel is useful it's only good on steel. I am looking at the DeWalt 24 volt battery operated saw.
What do you all think?

[Carl Hein]

Diversify! Would you rather have 2 haligan tools, or an axe and a haligan? Would you rather have 2 pumper/engines to take to a structure fire, or an engine and a ladder truck? Do you want all 2.5" hose on your fire truck, or a selection of 1" booster, 1.5", 1.75", and 2.5" hose? The key to winning the game is to have options.

I commend you for having a chisel, and discussing uses for it too. Too many departments discard these useful tools as antiques, and since they do not have hydraulic hoses and pumps attached to them, worthless as well. Don't forget that they don't just work well on steel (metal), but work very well on the plastic fender/doors/roofs/hoods/etc that we contend with as well. What a great, 1 person, stand alone tool for accessing the battery, in most cases! They can be used to make alternate entries in pole barn structures, have applications in forcible entry, and if your area applies, have a whole host of applications in ag and industrial rescue too!

But buy the saw. In fact if you have the $1000 dollars it takes to buy a really good air chisel, buy 5 or 6 reciprocating saws! (Get my point there?) While so many people tout the benefits of the cordless saws, and claim to have great luck with them, I stand by the standard corded/plug-in models for unending power. Give me a Porter Cable Tiger Saw with a quick change chuck and lets go to work. No battery maintenance, no concern with cold weather effects on batteries, I can use any blade without worring about bogging down the motor....and they are less expensive.

Ron (our moderator) did an excellent series in Firehouse magazine a while back on cordless saws. Get some saws (all types) and try them. Get varing blades too - and try them all. To me the blade plays an extremely important role in your perceived success or failure of this tool. Whether thats Sterling, Lenox, DeWalt, Starret, in 18tpi, 14 tpi, 10/14tpi, or something else, try them! See what works for you. Thats what is important.

But, buy the saw. That's an easy one.

[Carl Avery]

Well Carl, I got to agree with you. YOU took all the good Points. Rescue is the art of matching Solutions to Problems, the more solutions you have, the better your chances of making the match that works the best for each given Situation! Go with the Cip Saw, and if this is your first one buy corded, I would expand that and say if you were buying a second saw Seriously Consider the Cordless then. Again going with the diversity concept. Remember YOU ain't no contractor or a Handi man. YOU are a Rescue Service, that means Ready to go 24 hours a day 7 days a week, Remember that when you consider Battery units (I do believe the DeWalt Cordless 24 Volt does have an adapter that can change from cordless to corded and back again) Spare Batteries and chargers are a MUST in the whole process!

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Carl D. Avery

[Twostix]

Tony- Both tools are great to have, but you will find more things to do with a 'cip saw. One station near here consider themselves a "Sawzall company". I watched them reduce a school bus to a pile of rubble and it made me a believer! One trick they use, bend an angle in a Lenox blade and cut bus seat legs off FLUSH with the floor.
Be Safe, Get Home! Twostix

[Chumley302]

Go for the recip saw.Has many applications other than V.R. useful for clean up and forcible entry.Also useful for accessing wall interiors for those "hidden" fires.
Dewalt has an adapter available that lets you run off 110 A.C. should your battery die on you.Make sure you charge batteries regularly as the lose juice from sitting.

[billy]

Go with an electric 'cip saw initially. Check out the amperage rating, blade stroke length, and blade speed. Further, operate the blade change feature with gloves on...can it be done easily? Where can the unit be serviced/repaired?

Invest in a high quality extension cord, sized to fit the current draw of the unit at maximum length, plus the correct exterior jacket.

NEVER skimp on blades. There are LOTS out there; check them all out. I recommend a minmum blade thickness of .050", which prevents some breakage.

Go to the mfg. websites and ask questions via email.

[DonCurrie]

We have a gas powered recip saw that we use primarily as a backup to our hydraulic tools as well as a utility saw for other applications.

During training we often use the recip saw for pillars on one side and hydraulic cutter for pillars on the other side of the vehicle. Usually, barring blade breaks, the recip saw is much faster and cleaner (although louder) then the hydraulic tool for removing a roof. We carry the recip saw on our rescue truck along with, several different blades and a spray bottle with a soapy mixture to lubricate the blade during use.

I have only used an air chisel during training at another department and I found it loud and a little hard to control.

[rmoore]

Well Tony. Our Message Forum participants seem to be of the opinion that a second air chisel would not be a good use of your department's funds.

What do your members say when you show them these excellent posts; all saying to go with the saw? What are you going to do?

[tg2583]

I agree with all the commens made../
Personaly, I prefer teh recip saw, it is quicker, and easier to use. Dewalts battery operated adds monoverabilty and believe it or not it is actaully pretty light weight. I hae fond teh cords from teh electric to get in the way.

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You lite 'em, we fight 'em
BE SAFE OUT THERE.

[acfire]

We recently puchased 3 24 Volt DeWalt saws and have had an opportunity to use them twice in the last week. In one extrication the driver was pinned and impaled behind the drivers seat,over an embankment and in serious condition. The saws gave us another tool from the tool box that provided another option. We used it to cut a third door right behind the driver enabling crews to work right behind the driver without having to come through the back doors in a van loaded in such a way that rear access was difficult.

We recently used the tool on a new Jeep Cherokee that had hit a tree and the driver was pinned. The saw crew had three pilars cut for roof removal before the cutters were set up. We bought the 120V converter, again the only way to go on extended ops. BUY THE SAW>

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[rmoore]

A Posting From Ron Moore, Forum Moderator

I'd like us design a T-shirt that promotes the speed and efficiency of reciprocating saws.

I can see the front of the shirt now. Two saws taking up the entire front of the shirt. One recip saw shown vertically along the right side, another running parallel to it on the left.

Between them are crossed recip saw blades of various types and lengths forming a Maltese cross design.

Across the top of this design is the logo...
"Saws of Life"

Got any ideas or suggestions?

Ron Moore,
Fire Training Manager
Plano (TX) Fire Rescue
214-728-6776
<[email protected]>

[town/dept]

RON

It looks like you would buy the saw also

[Carl Avery]

I know Zmag does Tee shirts, Not sure if he has got somebody to do the Art, but lets fire this up some more, maybe DeWalt or Porter Cable or Milwaukee would like to get on board!
I LIKE THIS IDEA

Originally posted by rmoore:
A Posting From Ron Moore, Forum Moderator

I'd like us design a T-shirt that promotes the speed and efficiency of reciprocating saws.

I can see the front of the shirt now. Two saws taking up the entire front of the shirt. One recip saw shown vertically along the right side, another running parallel to it on the left.

Between them are crossed recip saw blades of various types and lengths forming a Maltese cross design.

Across the top of this design is the logo...
"Saws of Life"

Got any ideas or suggestions?

Ron Moore,
Fire Training Manager
Plano (TX) Fire Rescue
214-728-6776
<[email protected]>

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Carl D. Avery

[EMT/FIREFIGHTER NEPA]

WELL I HAVE ONE QUESTION FOR YA. HOW IS YOUR DEPARTMENT ON MAINTENANCE. BATTERY POWERED EQUIPMENT HAS TO BE PROPERLY MAINTAINED. YOUR BEST BET IS TO GO WITH A CORDED SAW IF YOU DONT LIKE THE DEWALT 24 WHICH GIVES YOU THE OPTION. BUT THE SAW IS THE WAY TO GO. DIVERSIFY. MANY TOOLS IN THE BOX MEAN MORE TASKS CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED. HERES ANOTHER ANGLE AIR WILL EVENTUALLY RUN OUT BUT UNLESS YOUR ENGINE DIES YOU WILL HAVE ELECTRICITY