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  • 95ff38
    Guest replied
    If we want to find out how other tools compare against each other, why don't we consult someone in the engineering field who would be able to tell us what would be the best materials to try cutting with each tool, or similar cars and try and do dash rolls, a-post cuts, door removal, etc. How about Ron Moore, can he be of any help and trying to find out what these tools can do on a level playing field???

    Leave a comment:


  • Firecop205
    Guest replied
    Good topic. I recently got to see a head-to-head comparison when my department was in the market for a tool. We compared Hurst, Phoenix and Holmatro. We ended up buying the Hurst Maverick Combo Tool and a pair of Phoenix straight edge cutters. Holmatro didn't fair as well as the others, but did a pretty good job despite. The reason for the combination of Hurst and Phoenix is Hurst has a pretty good reputation but Phoenix has the best cutters from our comparison. We broke a brand new pair of Hurst cutters on a "A" post of a 1976 International Scout. The blade broke clean at the hinge pin. I'm sure there are other tools out there, but we haven't found anything that can cut like the Phoenix. However, the Hurst Maverick is th emost powerful combo tool I've ever seen personally. We're pleased with our purchase and have had great sucess so far. Thanks for the topic. Be safe!

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  • Daniel Barr
    Guest replied
    I think as a dealer for LUKAS recue tools. I have been side by side in demo's with many manufacturors. I feel that the best to decide is a side by demo. I always let the fire department use the tools as i talk about their forces and weight and performance. etc. I let the resscue technicians get hands on. I can easily rip a car apart with my tool because I use it all the time. the true test is if a novice tech can do the same with my tool. I saw a manufacturor loose a sale because the salesman ripped the car apart and would not let the department get their hands on the tool.

    I would be honored to participate in a demonstration of our product. WWW.Lukas.com

    keep up the great debates.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hamy91
    Guest replied
    Capt. Dan,

    Are you from Midland, TX? If you are I may have a resource of information for you. If you are view my profile and e-mail if you are interested. Even if you are not from TX I could still relay the info if you want it.

    ------------------
    Hamy91

    FIrefighters are the chosen people.
    _________________________

    My views do not reflect that of my department or the United States Air Force

    Leave a comment:


  • Hamy91
    Guest replied
    Capt. Dan,

    Are you from Midland, TX? If you are I may have a resouce of information for you. If you are or if you are interested in my resource view my profiel and e-mail me.

    ------------------
    Hamy91

    FIrefighters are the chosen people.
    _________________________

    My views do not reflect that of my department or the United States Air Force

    Leave a comment:


  • Lewiston2Capt
    Guest replied
    I agree with RDWFIRE. We have learned adaptability. Face it which company has enough money to constantly purchase state of the art equipment. Besides much of the equipment out there now has come from firefighters making what they have work.
    Another slant that I see coming into it is that people tend to like familiarity. If they learned on tool A, they may rate tool "B" poorly because they are less familiar with it. I too am very interested in where this may go. My volunteer company has considered looking into purchasing new X-tools. One person thinks that Homaltro is the way to go, another says stick with the Hurst, yet another says we should go with Amkus. I personally would like to hear from some of the smaller companies and get a good idea of what is out there.
    Capt Dan, I heard that Pheonix has gone out of business. I do not know if it is in fact true. Perhaps someone out there could look into this, I have heard some good things about their tools. Granted this is only from one person. So it may in fact not be true.
    Good luck guys I look forward to finding out what the results of this comparitive study are.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Greene
    Guest replied
    Hi Guys
    Well I guess I have to get in trouble here.
    I thought the question was were can you see & use these tools ? I see a lot of tool A against tool B above.
    I feel that a Comp and a Expo and the Acdemies are good places.
    A Comp, you can see the tools in use and all so use them in the bone yard.
    Just my thoughts for now.

    Jim Greene

    Leave a comment:


  • friday
    Guest replied
    It would indeed be very interesting to see all the improvised solutions that firefighters have come up with. As to which tool is best, there is no "BEST" tool, all the x-tools I have seen are good; some may work better under differing circumstances. Training with and familiarity with the tools available to any firefighter are very important. I would really like to see some hand tool extrication training that I have seen mentioned in this forum. I would just like to stay informed on state-of-the art, and see a place where information on all tools available was in one place. I understand that manufacturers must prioritize their demo and advertising budgets- it just seems to me that having a common forum for "tooting their own horn" would benefit everybody. I apologize if I have seemed short tempered with those who seem to put forth the idea that only one tool will work, or one technique will get the job done, but, there is ALWAYS more than one way to skin a cat. Capt. Dan

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  • RDWFIRE
    Guest replied
    Sorry firefighters, my spelling sucks!My thoughts are still the same though. It would be cool to see a comparison of all of the "power tools" vs hand tools. Many departments have designed and manufactured hand tools in-house. I would bet that some of these hand tools would be useful in our department's tool boxes.
    Thanks for the food for thought.
    Rescue Rick

    Leave a comment:


  • RDWFIRE
    Guest replied
    Capt Dan, It's not so much a question of what tool is best, or what tool can do the most, as it is what can you do with the tools you have. You could ask 20 firefighters what rescue tools they like the best and why, and you will get 20 different answers. Why? We have learnd to make do with what we have. CCFR uses Hurst because that is what we have. I came to Alaska from Kern County Fire in California. KCFD uses Hurst, and Pxoenix. BOTH good tools. Firefighters are innovators, and will do the best possible job with what they have at their disposal.
    Thanks for the food for thought!
    Rescue Rick

    Leave a comment:


  • Carl Avery
    Guest replied
    Well I hope my magazine will still support me (My Articles appear in another magazine, not Firehouse) there will be some changes there soon. But that is another story. I hope to be meeting with a state fire instructor who also just happens to sit on the Board of of a county Fire School in Pennsylvania. He is interested in working with me on developing this idea. NO promises yet. 2 Big Questions remain, 1- Financing we need to come up with the money to get all the items we need to conduct the tests, 2- getting Tools from all the Manufactures. My Idea would be to use Local Firefighthers as the tester ( Not the tool reps, I can see the tool reps giving each evaluating team and orientation, but the FFs do the actual testing)If any body has any ideas post them or let me know

    ------------------
    Carl D. Avery

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  • larescue
    Guest replied

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  • friday
    Guest replied
    It seems that once again this topic has begun to degenerate into a p***ing contest, and that's my fault, I suppose. Your criticism is valid Mr. Romer. When I started this topic, I was looking for info on places to see as many tools as possible, in action, in one place. My intent in replying to larescue was to say "yes, we've seen the Transformer". In the largely informal testing that I was able to set up with minimal support from admin, versatility WAS a factor. A majority of our crews who tested Hurst, Holmatro, TNT, and Curtiss-Wright preferred Holmatro. I myself preferred the TNT tools, but supported the majority decision.
    If anyone has any suggestions as to locations to view a wide variety of tools, that's what this topic was started for. If you have suggestions about objective criteria, please post them here. I will refrain from touting any particular brand in the future. I am hoping that we all can furnish Mr. Avery with a non-biased set of criteria, and that this set of criteria might become part of a truly comprehensive (ALL brands) de facto standard. Capt. Dan

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  • Kevin Romer
    Guest replied
    Interesting that "versatility" wasn't part of your so-called "subjective" tests. I wonder why?

    The apparent contest starting here regarding the tools should be taken to the other forum on "Hurst vs. Holmatro", don't you think?

    Good luck with your decision.... I hope for your sake that someday you can say you have an "ancient Holmatro set"......

    ------------------
    "Performance IS Everything"


    [This message has been edited by Kevin Romer (edited August 14, 2000).]

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  • friday
    Guest replied
    Yes, Hurst demonstrated their "Transformer" for us. It didn't meet our needs as well as the Holmatro spreader. It would be agreat tool for those who value versatility and novelty more than speed and strength, according to our subjective tests. Capt. Dan

    Leave a comment:

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