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  • Big truck on little car

    How would you stabilize the vehicles involved here? Your patient is the driver of the white car, trapped by the dash. What are you gonna do??



  • #2
    Make sure you have a heavy wrecker on its way. Box cribbing on both frames of the truck (if you have the luxury of a lot of cribbing). Low pressure airbags are another option. Once I have the truck stabalized, I would take the doors and remove the roof from the car. If the truck has pinned the dashboard onto the driver, I would consider a reverse of the dash roll. Making the same relief cut in the lower "A" post, but position a spreader with the intention to displace the floorboard downward in order to gain access to the driver. If this was not sucessful. I would probably look at having the wrecker lift the truck off of the car and then go with a conventional dash roll.

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    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

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    • #3
      It must be the day I, as junior man on the company, am in charge.
      I'd go with metal's beginning about stabilization and a wrecker and taking the roof and doors. Then I'd tell EMS to get out of the way, you know them medics(just kidding ). Depending on how far under the dash the victim was, I'd probably go with removing the seat back and cutting the rim of the steering wheel, and possibly displace or remove some pedals. If that wasn't enough, remove the seat completely and prepare to push dash (or floor, I'm flexible). I'd really need to do a thorough look-see at the situation before I did any cutting inside the car, alot of variables on how the victim could be trapped.
      Then, two hours of paperwork.....ughhhhhhhhhhh

      [This message has been edited by resqb (edited June 26, 2000).]

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      • #4
        I agree with metal, But for those of you that don't carry 2 pick-up loads of cribbing this is an ideal Zmag Ground Pad set-up. Two Ground Pads with 4 or 5 foot 4x4's to the truck frame, tie tool to tool with the strap and you will be rock solid in about 45 seconds. The time you save on the stab. job you will surely need on the bending part.

        Zmag

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        • #5
          Hey Zmag, you almost got it. I agree with using the ground pads/4X4's/Zama points, but before you do that, stabilize the car, secure the truck to the car with the wide "trucker" style ratchet straps, then add the ground pads. Make the 2 vehicles one and you will have less chance of slippage of the truck. I would hesitate to use lift bags, either high or low pressure, by themselves. Lift bags assist in stabilization but can not stabilize by themselves. Too much role. Now, what about a dash roll you ask?? I agree with the earlier post of removing the back of the seat, failing the pedals if needed, removing the steering wheel and bringing the patient straight up and out. Good exchange of info here. Lets keep it going...
          Skip Rupert
          "Keeper of the RESCUE ZONE".

          Comment


          • #6
            Good discussion guys, Im going to throw a few ideas out.

            If the patient is really trapped by the dash, and not just by the pedals then we wont be able to remove them by taking the back off of the seat.

            Also if the weight of the truck has collapsed the dash onto this persons legs, and the truck is still there when we make a cut in the A post then the dash will come down even further.

            Using the ground pads sounds good for stabilization,but you still have the weight of the truck on the car. We have the rescue jack stabilization system, and this would be a great place to use it.

            I think the best way to handle this situation would be tostabilize the truck with whatever type system that you have,deflate and chock both front wheels,chain the front of the truck to a piece of fire equipment that wont be missed if you use it as an anchor, next deflate all rear tires on the truck, this should get the weight of the truck off of the car and onto the stabilization struts, if all of the weight is off of the car we can run a chain come a long from another piece of equipment to the back of the car and gently pull it from under the truck.

            Once the car is free we can extricate the patient using conventional methods.

            I have a few back up plans if you guys think that this is too risky.

            Comment


            • #7
              RSQLT43 states:
              Also if the weight of the truck has collapsed the dash onto this persons legs, and the truck is still there when we make a cut in the A post then the dash will come down even further.
              ------------------------------------------
              Since it looks like I was the only one mentioning cutting the "A" post, I guess this was directed at my solution. If you box crib properly on the frames of the truck, I fail to see how will it come down on the dash when you cut the "A" post? The weight of the truck will rest on your cribbing, not on the dashboard. I would also consider having my wrecker secure the truck from above as well once it arrived. This would also position you to lift the truck if necessary to try your plan to remove the car from under the truck if you decided to go that route.




              ------------------
              Richard Nester
              Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes....get the boom wrecker and/or heavy wrecker on the way.
                -Check hazards of both vehicles (tank on truck looks to be fine).
                -Chock front wheels of truck, 4 point stabilization to car.
                -Box crib rear of truck frame.
                -Put low pressure bag in place under rear of truck.(only to be used if needed....to lift, NOT stabilize). May opt to raise driverside of truck, rolling it away slightly from driver side of car, gaining room if needed when the dash is pushed later on.
                -Deflate front truck tires.
                -Deflate all rear truck tires and remove them (impact wrench please) starting with driver side first. This alone may give us the room we need to move the dash.

                -Begin extricating on car:
                -remove roof & passenger door
                -diver side side removal
                -make cuts between drivers door hinges
                (below top, above bottom)and pinch
                & flap out between the hinges.
                -use spreaders to lift dash with tips
                between the hinges. This will keep side
                of car wide open, giving us good access
                and vision of petals/floorboard/feet.
                Maintain good cribbing under A-post
                here.
                -The wrecher(s) are put into place and rigged as soon as they arrive. And that's because we left plenty of room for them.
                It helps to have people who have knowledge of big trucks, particularly when it comes to removing the tires. Not quite like car tires.

                There's my action plan....

                Comment


                • #9
                  MetalMedic, I kinda grouped your response and Skips response together,my mistake, the way that you described would work just fine. what I was concerned with is strapping that big truck to the car,Im sure Skip would stabilize the truck with cribbing first, but it was not said in his post, I have not had the chance to strap two vehicles together, and thought that it may put more weight onto the driver.

                  MetalMedic, I also agree with using wreckers, we have a good company that is local, but sometimes late at night there is an extended eta, it sounds as if your company has used wreckers before, do you have a company that responds quickly on your calls?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    RESQLT43 replies..
                    do you have a company that responds quickly on your calls?


                    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    We are fortunate in this area to have a local wrecker that used to do pretty much all of the extrication prior to the development of modern hydraulic rescue tools. The level of service has continued from them as ownership has chaged over the years. However, they are definately "Plan B" for the reason you state... During the night, they have a delayed reponse. All the same, they have come to the "rescue" on more than one of those "oh poop" calls where their knowledge of vehicle exceeded that of the fire department.



                    ------------------
                    Richard Nester
                    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Stabilize the truck, stabilize the car, ratchet strap them both together. If its that bad lift it off. Lifting bags (hi or low) are not for stabilization in my opinion and would only be used if we had a need to lift the truck. In this case it appears that the truck is not creating an intrusion into the passenger comp't. Box cribbing is my method for the truck and step chocks with wedges for the car, for this I'd let air out of the tires I think (I wouldnt normally do that). Tire chocks are a must! Our company is very proficient in interior component displacment and working in very restrictive spaces, so disentanglement wouldn't be any biggie for us. Seats, pedals dashes etc. What about the old wheel lift, a very viable option as well looking at the vintage of this vehicle. Not to be snide but this looks pretty easy to handle.
                      I might put this baby in service as well (we keep it handy for those unusual type calls)

                      ------------------
                      The information presented herin is simply my opinion and does not represent the opinion or view of my employer(s) or any department/agency to which I belong.

                      [This message has been edited by M G (edited July 03, 2000).]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Great discussion here. Lets keep it going..
                        Now let me explain my earlier post better than I did on the first go around. The reason for stapping the truck to the car is to avoid more of the sliding of the truck from side to side. Remember, as you remove things from the car, the weight is lessend and the suspension will raise which will move the car. Even the best crib job will not move up with the car. Strapping the truck will not allow it to move independently. I did mention cribbing the truck. I would use the ZMAG ground pads. A lot less cribbing and in a very short period of time (30 seconds or so) the truck will be stable. Check [email protected] to take a look at them. Even after reading all the good posts here, I would stand by my strapping of the truck. I do like the tire/wheel removal idea. Once the groundpads are in place, removing the tires would give you the room need to roll the dash if needed.
                        Let me finish up by saying if you havent tried strapping a "top" vehicle to the bottom or a guiderail, try it in training and I think you will become a believer. Of course, cribbing goes with it, but it does keep the top vehicle very stable.
                        Skip Rupert
                        [email protected]

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