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  • genisis rescue tools

    brothers and sisters I'd like to hear some pros and cons to the system. Please share if you have a set?

  • #2
    I am sure that those who have them will swear by them. And as I have said before, about any hydraulic tool will do it's job. If you have a Genesis, just be sure you are familiar with it's abilities and limitations. Myself, I am partial to a low pressure tool rather than a high pressure tool like the Genesis. High pressure looks nice, are small and light weight. But if you understand the physics involved, a high pressure tool uses a low volume of fluid (which is why they are so compact) and relies on pump pressure to provide force. A low pressure tool uses a more constant pressue to drive bigger volumes of fluid to provide force. Compare the two side-by-side in actual working scenarios. You will find some difference in the performance between the high and low pressure tools when you are actually pushing or pulling.



    ------------------
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

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    • #3
      Well, we don't own them, but would if we could. A great tool. We have run them beside our Hurst system, with some very good rescue technicians at the controls and the Genisis made the other look like it was a child's toy. Very ergonomicly designed, balanced, easy to control. Push buttons right where your fingers are, not a reach with your thumb or twisting your hand. The cutters!! Long blades that easily grip around any shaped post. The Hurst cutters stopped on an A-post where the Genisis cut straight through it. As for low pressure vs High pressure. The Mineral oil does not suspend dirt and let it travel around the system, like it has ours and clog up controls - costing big bucks to have them fixed. Also the mineral oil doesn't eat your gloves and cloths away. The Genisis couplings are easier to use, no more trying to find that little ball. Plus there is a relief valve in the coupling so it doesn't leak everywhere. I don't buy things from salesmen - the tool sold it's self without anyones BS sales pitch. Just as the last post stated a tool is a tool, I agree -- to a point. I can put a good tool like the Genisis in one of my rescue techs hands and they will do a great job or any other tool like we have here at work, and the job will get done. It comes down to training, but it also comes down to having the right tools for the job. I give Genisis high marks, I just wish the rescue division had it in the budget to purchase a set to offer better patient care to the residence in our community.

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      • #4


        [This message has been edited by bvfd3200 (edited January 27, 2000).]

        [This message has been edited by bvfd3200 (edited January 27, 2000).]

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        • #5
          Oh my goodness... I can't just let this one go...

          1. If you use the tool the way it was designed to be used, it should perform as expected. However, even the Genesis has a potential for failure if you misuse or abuse it. The question asked for input on the Genesis, so my point was, if used properly, the Genesis will do it's job.

          2. More power, more force, 70 pound spreaders??? The (low pressure) spreader on our crash truck weighs 35 pounds. You need to check your numbers on the power and force of your tools. Power and force are limited by physical and mechanical factors of the materials used to make the tool rather than the function of the hydraulic cylinder that is moving the material.

          3. High pressure vs. Low pressure...
          Same principle but different methods of acheiving it. Not unlike a two-stage fire pump, if you switch from pressure to volume, you can move more fluid (water) with less stress to the power source (the engine). As for fluids, don't forget to check the MSDS on ethyl glycol while you are at it.

          4. You get a kick out of watching your mutual aid departments on your scenes after you have your job done??? Are you saying that you are standing around criticizing your mutual aid department that is engaged in a rescue, rather than assisting them since your job is already done?!?! Maybe the problem isn't the tools, but the training. You might want to work on a training drill where you work together on rescues instead of calling mutual aid to work your scene after you have finished doing your part. Your job isn't finished until the entire scene is secured, no mater what the pressure of the tool that does the job.

          5. I have never needed 100,000 pounds of force to do the jobs we get. Rescue isn't about who has the biggest, the first or the strongest tools as much as it is about the operator being the most skilled and possessing some common sense. I know some old timers who, armed with a port-a-power and a come-a-long, could do circles around some of the best new bloods armed with the best fancy hydraulic tools. Remember, if you are handling a tool capable of 100,000 pounds of force, you are armed with a device that can deliver that much force in both friendly and unfriendly manners. I think at some point, you can have too much power at your fingertips.

          Now, as for NFPA 1936, I have heard rumor that the safety of high pressure tools may become an issue with this standard. We shall wait and see. Never heard of any tool "blowing up" but I have seen a couple blasted couplings and pin holes in hoses... I like my odds at 5K over 10K if get into the path of one of them.

          It is also interesting that after all this low-pressure bashing, bvfd3200 closes by complimenting the Hurst (low pressure) tools. That brings me right back to my original point, all tools will do the job if you know what their limitations and abilities are.

          Bottom line... I will NEVER criticize another department's tools if they are satisfied with them and they are comfortable doing the job with them.



          ------------------
          Richard Nester
          Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

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          • #6
            I would like to say that I have been using Genesis Tools now for the past 5 years and I have used other manufacturers tools along side at training seminars. I must say that they have performed far beyond the other tools and our service has been extremely pleased with their operation.

            It does all come down to training and how each tool works. We had a C180 Cutter that we were working on an old 68 Kenworth Truck and off course when you are done with your training you tend to want to "play". Realize this were the dealer's tools and he told us to have at it.

            We also had another cutter that another dealer had and said his could do the same, we ended up breaking it.

            Anyway, we cut the tractor in half, frame, drive shaft and anything else that got in our way. Was kinda cool, but we now know what "our" tools can and cannot do.

            A nice feature is that you cannot "overload" the Genesis Tool's because of a "pop-off" pressure relief that is built into each tool, and yes I have seen it pop oil because of an incorrect hose hookup. I have also seen oil spray when a connector is not hooked up completely. That one happened to me and I got covered with mineral oil head to toe. Thank goodness for safety glasses.

            Remember, train the way you fight, fight the way you train.

            Elmer "Andy" Anderson NREMT
            Mountain Ambulance Service http://www.rescue70.org

            Comment


            • #7
              A posting From Forum Moderator Ron Moore -

              I notified Howell Rescue of these messages regarding the Genesis system. Let's see if they have anything to say about these points being discussed.

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              • #8
                I have been a State of Indiana Certified VRT Instructor for several years now with a total 13 years in the fire and rescue service. I have been involved in numerous side by side tool demonstrations and several have been involving the Genisis system. I have yet to be or see a Dept. be impressed with these tools. I have also been to a Howell Rescue Systems bus extrication class where these tools were provided for the class. To say the least I was very disappointed with the performance. I think these tools are over rated and do not perform to the standard that the promotional literature states.
                I am not a dealer of any hydraulic tool system, but have had the privilage of working with and using numerous differant brands of tools during my travels as an instructor. You ask for opinions, I gave mine.

                Dino

                Quote: Those who say it can't be done had better get out of the way of those who are going to do it!

                Comment


                • #9
                  I would like to reply to this interesting topic. First I have used all major hydraulic tools. (Hurst, Amkus, Lukas, Holmotro, Genesis, Phoenix) I believe that the Genesis Tool is a well made, easy to operate hydraulic system. The push button deadman should have come a long years ago. I've found that this is an easier control in those tight situations. The serrated blades of the cutters is another great feature, cutting down on the "pop" and twisting of the tool. The combo tool I give very high marks to along with the mini-cutter. NO ONE comes close to having a better mini cutter. The 40XL spreader is another great tool. Many people say you need a 32" spreader. B.S. that 28" spreader can handle any problem I've come to. I know everyone has there "favorite" tools. But, when you're looking at a system, don't be negative to new things. (Remember CAFS systems) Everything was new at one time. As far as dfire's comments. You are entitled to your opinions. But at Fire Expo '99, the Genesis booth was packed with people that were "impressed". Remember, if it wasn't a good tool, they wouldn't be around anymore. If you also want to see another great Genesis innovation, check out there Mini-Simo pump. I give it an A+.

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                  • #10
                    I have used both Hurst and Genesis tools in training and actual rescue operations. Both perform very well. I am very impressed with the Genesis equipment, and the service provided by Howell. Having used them side by side my choice is Genesis. My present dept. recently purchased the newest versions of Hurst equipment. It is excellent equipment, however it is still a heavy, bulky tool to use when compared to the Genesis. The Genesis seems to be a quicker tool also.

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                    • #11
                      Why look for a little button to operate your tool when LUKAS gives you a 360 degree star control.

                      LUKAS RESCUE TOOLS ARE NFPA 1936 COMPLIANT.

                      Check out these tools at WWW.LUKAS.COM

                      you will see what I am saying, they also have a new cutter with 100,000 pounds of cutting force and a spreader with 57,00 pounds of force. GREAT

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                      • #12
                        just one thing on genesis. after extensive testing and by word of mouth at the fdic conference it seems genesis is having a lot of problems with their cutters. i know on several demos the blades have broken. during one demo we asked to cut a hinge on a chevy celebrity, the rep didn't want to let us. subsequently he did it himself and broke the blades... just food for thought... be safe

                        meegs

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                        • #13
                          >during one demo we asked to cut a hinge on >a chevy celebrity, the rep didn't want to >let us. subsequently he did it himself and >broke the blades...

                          See how many tools out there will cut an "A" post on a school bus...



                          ------------------
                          Richard Nester
                          Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

                          Comment

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