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Hurst vs Holmatro

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  • #46
    If your in the South Jersey/Philly area, good luck in getting that kind of service from Phoenix. We have had the tools for 12 years, generally happy with the performance, but the service is making us look elsewhere.

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    • #47
      And sometimes you DO cut steering wheel columns if you're working on vehicles that have a continuous steering shaft (rear wheel drive).

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      • #48
        I THINK THAT IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT ALL OF THE RESCUE TOOLS ON THE MARKET WILL HAVE THERE + AND - . BUT IF YOUR DEPT. MUST CHANGE BRANDS DONT JUST ASK WHICH TOOL IS BETTER, BECAUSE AS YOU CAN SEE EVERY ONE HAS A FAVORITE. YOU SHOULD ASK YOURSELF AND YOUR DEPT. HOW OFTEN DO YOU PLAN ON USING THE TOOL? HOW MUCH CAN YOU SPEND ON THE NEW TOOL? HOW MUCH ROOM DO YOU HAVE ON YOUR TRUCK FOR THE NEW TOOL? IS YOUR DEPT. SMALL AND OR VOLUNTEER IF SO YOU MIGHT CONCIDER A SMALLER ONE MAN HOLMATRO(EASY MAINTANCE&STORAGE) IF IT IS A LARGER DEPT. I WOULD PROBABLY STAY WITH THE HURST YOU MIGHT EVEN BE ABLE TO USE YOUR CURRENT TOOL AS A TRADE IN, OR SELL IT TO ANOTHER DEPT. THAT MAY NOT HAVE ONE AND CAN NOT AFFORD A NEW ONE.

        AS PART OF A 12 MAN VOLUNTEER DEPT. WE WENT WITH THE ONE MAN HOLMATRO BUT WE ALSO KNOW THAT WE CAN CALL ON OUR MUTAL AIDE DEPT. IF WE COME ACCROSS SOMETHING WE CAN'T HANDLE, AND THEY ARE EQUIPED WITH A VERY LARGE VERY POWERFUL HURST.
        I THINK YOU SHOULD CONCIDER MORE THAN JUST WHICH BRAND IS BETTER.

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        • #49
          Well put NVFD933. Every thing has its good points and bad points. It doesn't make alot of differnce that the operator may play a big roll in the ability of the tools. All this bickering about which tool is better. Does it make a difference to the victim after you extricate? The point is you do the job with what you have. Everybody has an opinion as well something else we all have! Why do departments have so many different colored fire trucks? Ask about any 5 yr.old and they'll tell ya "RED". have a nice day!

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          • #50
            Some very good points NVFD933! We all bought
            the tool that would do the job. One note about Phoenix service...our dept. was told that if we weren't taken care of within 24 hrs. in the event of a breakdown, the dealer
            would have their lic. to sell Phoenix pulled.
            To friday, all the classes, demos, & training we have had we NEVER cut the steering column. That is what a dash roll is for!

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            • #51
              To fireman 6497: The Dash Roll is an effective procedure in many circumstances. Ron Moore's Modified Dash Roll looks like it may be a way to improve the procedure when dealing with late model vehicles booby trapped with air bags. But sometimes, you must cut the steering wheel and it nice to have the equipment to do it with. Pulling the steering wheel will work just as quickly and effectively when dealing with vehicles (older models) equipped with a continuous steering shaft. And there is seldom just 1 way to do anything. Capt. Dan

              [This message has been edited by friday (edited September 17, 1999).]

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              • #52
                A few points of clarification:

                A recent post indicated that Holmatro's hose is not steel-braided and has a safety factor of 4:1, and indicates that is part of the NFPA requirements. I don't know if the NFPA reference was to the hose construction (non steel-braided) or the safety factor. NFPA 1936 does not state that hose cannot be steel-braided. Additionally, the NFPA required safety factor for hose is 2:1.

                I'm a Hurst user, so don't know the particulars of Holmatro's system. I am, however, curious as to the claim that their hose has a 4:1 safety factor. During the development of NPFA 1936, there were numerous debates concerning safety factors for hose, and I was under the impression that all of the 10,000 psi systems used 2:1 safety factor, because the weight for a 4:1 hose would be high. I'm not saying that the Holmatro can't be 4:1, just that it seems at odds with my recollection.

                As far as the NFPA standard, it was approved by the membership at the Baltimore annual meeting in May without amendment, and has been issued by the Standards Council. I don't know what the "official" release date is, but the standard has completed it's long and arduous (to say the least) journey.

                Christopher H. Born, NREMT-P
                Kempsville Vol. Rescue Squad
                Principal Member, NFPA Tech Cmte on Rescue Tools

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                • #53
                  Chief Klir- What did you go with? What influenced your decision? Were you able to get any benefit from the wrangling that went on in this forum?

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                  • #54
                    The NFPA 1936 does have the section about the hose burst pressure being 200% of the working pressure (4-2.3), the JIC on hydraulics states that ALL hydraulic systems will work on a 4-1 safety factor.

                    It also says nothing about steel braid, kevlar or plastic... steel braid is required for the higher pressures (ex 10,500) to maintain hose integrity.

                    ------------------
                    "Performance IS Everything"

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                    • #55
                      Hi all, we have had a problem with our set of holmatro spreaders. The problem is that when you have the tool spreading the door open it will power out and you will have to reposition the tool and try to start over. This does not happen everytime but it seem to only do it on the scene. The tools are about 5 years old and the company sent someone down to look at the tools about a year ago.

                      Is anyone else having problems like we are having. Thanks

                      Have a good day and be safe.

                      Joe
                      Local 3905.

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                      • #56
                        Ed,
                        As you can see this topic has a wide variety of opinions. While there are many different end users of hydraulic rescue tools you need to keep an objective view when you demo whatever tools you look at. While there are many views on hurst, holmatro, genesis and even tnt, I can tell you from a department that did a two year study on hydraulic tools, I have seen each one of these tools fail to perform in certain circumstances. Some even blew apart in the salesmans hands. Look at what you as a department want to accomplish. What extrication philosophy do you use currently. the tools you chose must perform. Servicability, what is the tool companies turn around time on service, warranty, compatability issues with surrounding departments. what fluids to want to run, phosphate esther, or mineral oil.
                        $$$$ cost $$$$

                        I notice that a lot of people say hurst is better, amkus or whatever. No one has come out and filled in the blanks. I've noticed this on the past few postings. We need to start backing up our info so we can be more objective.

                        So what did we wind up with, TNT. It met all of our specifications above and have not had any problems.

                        Good luck, be safe all.

                        meegs

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                        • #57
                          I have used Hurst equipment and Holmatro equipment on actual incidnets and in training for many years. On occassion during training I have used Amkus and Code 3.

                          Give me a Holmatro tool anytime. I am a medium size male with average upper body strength. I can operate a Holmatro built tool by myself long enough to accomplish almost any rescue. The tools are lighter and better balanced than a Husrt product. When staffing is limited and time critical a tool which required two persons to operate because of weight and balance is more limiting than tools that can be operated by a single person. The second rescuer may performa another operation simultaeously and d thus speed up the overall operation.

                          I have no agument with the quality of Hurst equipement. I must also agree with the school of thought which gives weight to the quality of the service and price of the product. After all budgets are a fact of life.

                          My money is on Holmatro and I made the decision to switch from Hurst to Holmatro in my small volunteer department because the Holmatro product is superior in balance and usablity and the local dealer is great.

                          Line them up and try them all out. If you approuch your decision with an open mind and judge the products fairley based on criteria which favors "real world practicality" I believe that you will find Holmatro to be a winner. Good luck on your decision.

                          I am not a dealer.

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                          • #58
                            I had been a longtime Hurst fan as well. I went to a Homatro demo at a neighboring company and was impressed. I was hooked on the tools, speed, power, non-toxic fluid, etc. I would advise having a "show-down" with Hurst & Holmatro, get some vehicles, and do it too it. The dealers love that stuff and let the tools sell themselves. Then you can make the best decision for your company.

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                            • #59
                              Finally, admin is bidding out the new Holmatro system. Time will tell if the line personnel made the right choice. Maybe we can take the 20+ year old steel armed Hurst tool and put it in the museum. Hurst will get a chance to bid for the combo tools along with EVERYONE who wants to demo their stuff. Sure would like to see Genesis, Lukas and Phoenix up close and see if Genesis' new cutter will cut reinforced concrete. Hope every body who is getting new tools has a smoother process than we did. Capt. Dan

                              [This message has been edited by friday (edited February 24, 2000).]

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                              • #60
                                I think you should try LUKAS rescue tools.
                                LUKAS patents their pumps, couplers, and star grip total speed control valve.

                                CONGRATULATIONS to LUKAS for NFPA 1936 Certification. Another LUKAS first

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