Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Hurst vs Holmatro

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Although I have opened my mouth and been a bit of a smart *$%*, I do believe Hurst makes an extremely good tool. Our neigboring departments use Amkus and TNT. When push comes to shove and we need multiple tools for a multiple vehicle accident, we have called upon them. Not because of what tool they use, but because they do the job. Even if anyone had a choice as to picking a certain department because of the tool they use (which would be rediculous)to have them respond, we would not even consider that. All tools do the job. BUT - when it comes down to the debate at hand, everyone has their own opinion. Everyone has what fits them, and their department. One person replied that one tool would be good for a veteran while another would be good for a rookie. I believe that is true. It all comes down to practice, practice, practice. Become familiar with the tool your department has, make it your best friend. Because you are going to have to deal with what your department has wether it because of name, durability, what the department can afford, or whatever other reason your department has what it has. Be kind to it, take care of it by maintaining it weekly - IT WILL get the tuna out of the can. Creativity and originality can go hand in hand.

    Comment


    • #32
      Hi from Sydney, Australia!!
      I understand that Hurst is THE tool of choice in the US. The NSW Fire Brigades has chosen Holmatro for quite a while and has really stood up to the test - not only because of the quality and capability, but also for versatility and the range of products they produce (I at this very moment have both the Holmatro and Hurst catalogues in front of me and the Holmatro catalogue is quite bigger). Here's another reason why we use Holmatro as opposed to Hurst
      The JL-32B Spreaders by Hurst weigh 31.8kg
      The SP 3280 Spreaders by Hol. weigh 27kg
      Both comparable spreaders (The Hurst can spread a little further, the Hol. has a little more spread and pull force), but the Hol. tools are generally lighter.
      Of course, we can all try to convince you which tool to use, but the best way to decide is to try the tools out.
      Good Luck!!
      Nathan Van Der Meulen
      Rescue Firefighter
      New South Wales Fire Brigades

      Comment


      • #33
        As I sit and read this forum, it is quite interesting on the opinions and reasons why we might switch from one to another. Now I sit and read one reason that we like a particular tool is because the size of the catalog! I don't buy all Crafstman tools because the size of the catalog! I too have the "catalog" of the previously mentioned tool. Inside cover... lower left corner, same crib blocks in 2 piles, stacked different. Same pumps, in two views. Same spreaders, two views, one without shackles... one with! Continue to look and you will see the same stuff in several different formats. One thing for sure with the "catalog"... they fooled the people in Australia. Do they make a good tool, sure they do, but the marketing is what caught your eye. Lots of pictures. They offer 4 spreaders, so don't we. They offer 3 cutters, we offer 7. They offer 2 combi tools, we offer 5. They offer 6 rams (some are identical other than the UL listing), we offer 4. We offer 22 pump options, and they offer 17.

        Does any of that crap matter... probably not but the bottom line is "DON'T STOP AT ALL THE NICE PICTURES IN THE BOOK!"

        Thanks for reading, and I'll sit back now and relax.

        Kevin Romer

        Comment


        • #34
          To defend myself...
          Nowhere in my post did I ever mention that I prefer a certain tool because of it's catalogue!! I was trying to imply that Holmatro offer a wider choice of products - instead of shopping around, Holmatro can supply a dept with almost (read almost) all its extrication needs. Of course the only way to truly evaluate one against the other is to use them.
          I clearly stated that I prefer Holmatro because they produce a comparable (sometimes better) product with a lighter weight.
          By the way...of course the same cribs appear twice. They're part of a complete set.

          Comment


          • #35
            I'm not sure why I'm even getting involved in this discussion as it all boils down to opinions and everyone knows how the saying goes about opinions.
            JawOlife, Hurst may of had the first spreader, but history tells me that Lukas produced and marketed the first hydraulic cutter and wouldn't you know it they have just finished testing and now have available a cutter that produces in excess of 100,000 lbs. of cutting force. This tool is an incredible piece of equipment.
            Lukas also makes the most powerful spreader available on the market today. The LSP 100 32" spreader packs a wallop of 51,700 lbs of spreading force and their brand new 28" has 50,000 lbs of spreading force. Both of these bad boys blow through box hinges with not so much as an effort. My past experience with Hurst was you were lucky to even get the tips to stay without them kicking out.
            Lukas also produces a ram with 54,000 lbs of pushing force.
            Like I mentioned in my previous response Lukas has the competition beat in more ways then one. Not only do they produce outstanding extrication tools, they also have the service that backs up their equipment.
            The only draw back to Lukas is the fact that they don't come cheap but then again as in most everything in life you get what you pay for.
            I've said enough.... =o)

            Dino "Local 1443" Saluting all my brothers and sisters.

            [This message has been edited by dfire (edited August 18, 1999).]

            [This message has been edited by dfire (edited August 18, 1999).]

            Comment


            • #36
              Both sets of tools have good points and bad. We used to have one set of each, but went with Holmatro. Check what your departments around you have. Can you interchange with them? If your pump quits and they have the same tools, it would be easier to just pull their reels than pull out a whole other set of tools. I don't think you could go wrong with either one. good luck

              Comment


              • #37
                I dunno.

                After reading all of this, I sometimes wonder if we shouldn't just pick the tool with the colour we like!

                Comment


                • #38
                  we have used hurst tools for twenty years we have not had any part failures to date. the hurst tool is heavy and alittle slower than the other tools.we have ran rescues with mutual aide companies, and have had the chance to use holmatro and genesis tools.the time we used the holmatro we broke the cutters,when we used the genesis tool the cutter also broke,the breakage could have been from a lack of maintenance,or as some people are saying improper use of the tools.i do not think that improper training or use is the problem because we have not broken anything yet.i did like the genisis spreader it opened and closed faster and smoother than any other tool that i have used.i did not like the tips very much, i prefer the grabber tips on the hurst.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    If any hydraulic rescue system goes down for a reason other than motor problem, other system components should not be placed in the system that failed. The system that failed can have contanimination in the system that can damage additional parts.

                    Holmatro has a cutter with 100,000+ cutting force confirmed by UL.

                    Holmatro has tools that are NFPA compliant. Does any other Rescue Tool Company have NFPA Compliant tools?

                    Holmatro was the first and only tool to achieve UL Listing.

                    The blades of any cutter can be broken by untrained users or users that are bent on breaking a tool. Often when any brand of rescue tool is broken it is due to misuse. ie cutting the tips into hardened or solid materials or pushing ram against tool causing a side load that can create a hairline crack and eventual failure.

                    For the results of testing on 10 diffrent sets of hydrauic tools tested by Ade Scott & Andy Clark of "Fire Professional Magazine" from the United Kindom see their newest issue Volume 7 Issue 3.
                    (Part 1) additional reports will follow in later issues.

                    Holmatro combination tool achieved the highest rating with Hurst combination tool being number 6 and the Hurst EK Combi last. Each tool was tested under the same conditions.

                    Yes I am a Holmatro Dealer.

                    J. T. Whidby

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      If any hydraulic rescue system goes down for a reason other than motor problem, other system components should not be placed in the system that failed. The system that failed can have contanimination in the system that can damage additional parts.

                      Holmatro has a cutter with 100,000+ cutting force confirmed by UL.

                      Holmatro has tools that are NFPA compliant. Does any other Rescue Tool Company have NFPA Compliant tools?

                      Holmatro was the first and only tool to achieve UL Listing.

                      The blades of any cutter can be broken by untrained users or users that are bent on breaking a tool. Often when any brand of rescue tool is broken it is due to misuse. ie cutting the tips into hardened or solid materials or pushing ram against tool causing a side load that can create a hairline crack and eventual failure.

                      For the results of testing on 10 diffrent sets of hydrauic tools tested by Ade Scott & Andy Clark of "Fire Professional Magazine" from the United Kindom see their newest issue Volume 7 Issue 3.
                      (Part 1) additional reports will follow in later issues.

                      Holmatro combination tool achieved the highest rating with Hurst combination tool being number 6 and the Hurst EK Combi last. Each tool was tested under the same conditions.

                      Yes I am a Holmatro Dealer.

                      J. T. Whidby

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I really like Holmatro too. I like the tools for lots of reasons, some I will post here.

                        I like the steel braid reinforced hoses, especially when there is electricity on the scene and something bad happens like a downed or cut wire. Makes me comfortable knowing that my hose is not electrically non-conductive.

                        I like the 10,500 psi pump pressures, not that I ever needed that much, but I like still it. I like the extra wear and tear the unneccessary pressures create. With that much pressure being generated or capable of being generated, it is comforting to know that the mfg is looking out for my safety.

                        I like the feature of the external relief valve on the tools. You know, when the pressure side of a hose comes apart and the oil squirts out of the tool, usually all over my turnout gear and the ground.

                        Speaking of the oil that vented on the ground, it sure is fun to slip and slid on a mess that wasn't there when we started. What fun it could be be if there was a fire and the hyd oil was around. I still see safety is number one.

                        I really like the combi tools non-replacable tips. It is comforting to know that I will need to change both blades should we ding up the tip.

                        I could go on about what really makes me happy about Holmatro, but then again, I sell Hurst!

                        Kevin Romer

                        ------------------
                        Performance is Everything!!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Normally I would not do this But!

                          Kevin I see you need a little help.

                          1. Holmatro uses kevlar renforced hose with 4:1 safety factor NO STEEL BRAID. That if a part of the NFPA certification

                          2. Electricity will run any dirty hose regardless of the brand (even Hurst) That is why the electrical companies have to clean and test their equipment. Do any fire departments clean and test their hose for electrical conductivity?

                          3. The low volumn pumps would allow for a very small volumn of hydraulic oil flow in event on any leak. The mineral hydraulic oil used by Holmatro does not vaporize through the hose as does one other companies fluid when hot and under pressure. (check OSHA Report, have copy available if you need it)

                          4. If the pressure side of the hose were to be uncoupled there would be no pressure in the tool so no relief valve would open.
                          5. On Holmatro if the untrained operator should disconnectt a return line without turning off the operational valve the relief valve would operate allowing a small amount of flood to vent out. At that time the operator would simply turn of the pump operation valve, reconnect hose or change tools, open valve and be in operation is few seconds.

                          6. There would not be enough of the Mineral Base Hydraulic oil to get on many coats and the ground. In event you did get some on your gloves you would simply clean with warm soapy water and know they sers ready for use. Some Fluids have to be professionally cleaned from gloves and gear.

                          7. The combination tool tips are built with reliability to the point i have not seen a "Dinged Up Tip". you must be thinking of the tools you work with.

                          8. Yes Performance is everything, that is how Holmatro came out NUMBER ONE.
                          and that is why Holmatro is the first and only Rescue tool to have Both UL and NFPA certification.

                          Do you purchase fire fighting gear that is not NFPA certified? They why would you purchase rescue tools that are not third party tested and certified?

                          I am sorry most of you had to read this but I do believe in training and it apperars Kevin did not have all facts and information straight

                          J. T. Whidby
                          Holmatro Rescue Tool Dealer
                          Atlanta , GA.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Normally I would not do this But!

                            Kevin I see you need a little help.

                            1. Holmatro uses kevlar renforced hose with 4:1 safety factor NO STEEL BRAID. That if a part of the NFPA certification

                            2. Electricity will run any dirty hose regardless of the brand (even Hurst) That is why the electrical companies have to clean and test their equipment. Do any fire departments clean and test their hose for electrical conductivity?

                            3. The low volumn pumps would allow for a very small volumn of hydraulic oil flow in event on any leak. The mineral hydraulic oil used by Holmatro does not vaporize through the hose as does one other companies fluid when hot and under pressure. (check OSHA Report, have copy available if you need it)

                            4. If the pressure side of the hose were to be uncoupled there would be no pressure in the tool so no relief valve would open.
                            5. On Holmatro if the untrained operator should disconnectt a return line without turning off the operational valve the relief valve would operate allowing a small amount of flood to vent out. At that time the operator would simply turn of the pump operation valve, reconnect hose or change tools, open valve and be in operation is few seconds.

                            6. There would not be enough of the Mineral Base Hydraulic oil to get on many coats and the ground. In event you did get some on your gloves you would simply clean with warm soapy water and know they sers ready for use. Some Fluids have to be professionally cleaned from gloves and gear.

                            7. The combination tool tips are built with reliability to the point i have not seen a "Dinged Up Tip". you must be thinking of the tools you work with.

                            8. Yes Performance is everything, that is how Holmatro came out NUMBER ONE.
                            and that is why Holmatro is the first and only Rescue tool to have Both UL and NFPA certification.

                            Do you purchase fire fighting gear that is not NFPA certified? They why would you purchase rescue tools that are not third party tested and certified?

                            I am sorry most of you had to read this but I do believe in training and it apperars Kevin did not have all facts and information straight

                            J. T. Whidby
                            Holmatro Rescue Tool Dealer
                            Atlanta , GA.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Ok so I stand corrected.

                              When I sold Holmatro, the hoses were steel braided, new literature doesn't say anything about hoses except the 4/1 safety. We too have and have had that for quite some time, at least 15 years.

                              As far as the oil on the ground, I can only say from experience that when a tool or hose gets the pressure side disconnected, unless it's the first coupling in the system, the oil WILL vent out onto the ground. You claim a little, although the amount is frivilous, the point is the oil DOES vent to the outside atmosphere. If it doesn't get on the ground, it gets on the operators PPE. Can it be washed, sure it can, what a pain in the neck for it to happen to start with.

                              As for training sir... I will stand shoulder to shoulder with you anytime there is a training program. That is the key to the whole ball of wax. You mentioned thast with proper training the tools wouldnt come apart at the couplings, unfortunately not everyone agrees with the training concept, and the untrained, anxious, and excited due arrive at scenes of chaos... and they can and do screw things up.

                              One last. Is the NFPA standard now in effect? I ask that with all honesty as the last I knew it was still under review. There are still FD's that use non NFPA equipment. You know it and I know it.

                              Oh well, one thing for sure, this is the first forum that I have seen that is more than 1 page long. With all BS aside, most everyone who has read it, has learned good and bads on both "H" tools.

                              It's easy to sit here and type slams, but I "think" we did some education. Did we??

                              Once again... I do sell Hurst, a lot of Hurst. See ya

                              Kevin Romer

                              ------------------
                              Performance is Everything!!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Our dept. switched from Hurst to Phoenix because of performance,service & price. If
                                you have any trouble with Phoenix, the dealer
                                is required to either have it repaired or replaced within 24 hr.!! We also just had a multi-dept. demonstration of Hurst,Halmaltro,
                                TNT, & Phoenix. The Phoenix cut & spread circles around the other 3. The only advantage TNT had was the high pressure which is really no advantage because you DON'T cut the steering column during an extrication.

                                Comment

                                300x600 Ad Unit (In-View)

                                Collapse

                                Upper 300x250

                                Collapse

                                Taboola

                                Collapse

                                Leader

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X