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Hurst vs Holmatro

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  • #16
    Let me get this:

    You are using Hurst tools.
    You want to switch to Holmatro.

    Heavens to Betsy, why??

    Dealers are always happy to let you play with their tools. Call them all up, set aside a day, and have them all come and let everyone in the company play. Work the tools (and work the dealers)--HARD!! See how they both hold up.

    And Chief48, I truly hope you don't believe that all hydraulic tools are the same.

    No, I'm not a dealer.
    Yes, I'm a die-hard Hurst fan.

    [This message has been edited by rescue1550 (edited July 01, 1999).]


    • #17
      We used & abused HURST tools for many, many years with little problems associated with the tool itself. Most problems we had were "user error". When we bought new apparatus, we had all the "big name" brands come in show their stuff. Most of the major manufacturers were pretty equal, so why switch? Chief48 hit it on the head, price & service. Whether these are the right reasons or not, is another descussion. However, I must say, we have "abused" the Holmatro tools without any problems also. Make a decision and stick to it.

      IAFF 995
      When it has to be done right,
      CALL THE RESCUE CO.!!!!!


      • #18
        Was a big Hurst fan for a long time, but became converted after using Amkus for the last four years. I dont particularly know about the actual forces the tools are capable of, but i've never NOT been able to do something I wanted to do with an Amkus tool, can't say that with hurst. The amkus stuff is noticebly lighter than the hurst, a 32" spreader is easily handled by one man, I believe the companies claim the same force rating (imagine that). One advantage of a 10500# system vs. a 5000# system...your piston can be half the size (and weight).

        At a TERC competition, in the 'practice area' a buddy of mine and i played with a pair of cutters run off of little gas pumps...a hurst +-4.5" O-cutter with serratiosn on the blade running off a single pump and another 5+" O cutter with serrations.(TNT?) running off of one of those little tiny pumps. We were just messing around, mind you, i was hoping that this new, lightweight hurst cutter would impress me. It cut the hinges fine, but when i went to cut the steering column (i know, iknow we dont really do that) i bogged down twice, i asked the hurst guy if it would cut it, he said sure, but while i was talking, my buddy lopped it off with his cutter. (I think the salesrep walked away about now) we then cut the car in half at the b-post. Halfway through this we sat the hurst down and took turns on the the other cutter.

        Moral of a long, stupid story...most of the tools named here will do what you want them to do...so as the man was saying price and service might be more important than a marginal difference in performance.

        The cutter in question had a red anodized body i believe-it wasnt amkus or holmatro.

        I've used TNT/Genesis in play before, was impressed. (Goldish anodized?)

        Holmatro is UL Certified and ISO9000 compliant. Both of which say that the company has taken a lot of time and effort to show that they build a quality product.

        I dont think any of them can compete with the Amkus Ultimate pump....if you can meet the price.

        enough about me though


        • #19
          Capt. Dan - you said "What I would give my eye teeth for is to have all the reps for all the tools at the same place (MFD drill field) on the same day, with say, an impartial panel of engineers and fire department personnel (LINE personnel that actually use it) and perform a series of Consumer Reports type tests."

          Great IDEA - Go for it! You should get a good response from the tool maker/distributors and at the very least, you will find out who's willing to put their stuff head to head with the competition.

          If you get to do this, let us know the results or better yet, invite several departments to evaluate along with you. It might provide a little more incentive for the manufacturer (we are doing this for imagers and have had a great response from the manufacturers).


          • #20
            E. Klir,

            I agree with why would you switch. Our area is served by 9 departments with 3 different types of tools (we have the Hurst). When the other tools won't do the job, they call us and the Hurst does (agreed, it could be a training problem too).

            If you do decide to switch, make sure the tools are compatable with your mutual aid companies. It would have made things better around here...


            • #21
              Edward, I applaud your efforts. Most departments have one tool system, one train of thought and one opinion. I am glad to see that you are trying to get the best out of your rescue tools, and are not stuck on a name. I agree with several of my collegues and also recommend that you contact several tool reps and look for performance, price and service. I come from a department that uses Amkus. After attending several competitions, trying several diffrent tools,
              I have become partial to TNT Rescue Systems. I like their controls, their adaptability, their durability, and their ability to cut just about anything. Hopefully our department will be switching over soon. No matter which tool you choose, I think you brought up a healthy topic.

              William J. Lynch Jr.
              Deputy Chief
              Portland Hook & Ladder Co. #1
              Portland, Pa.


              • #22
                I concurr with what several others have stated. You need to pick the tool that best fits your dept.'s needs. I recently had the oppourtunity to be involved in a training class that involved hurst, holmatro, lukas, and amkus. I was able to evaluate each tool thuroughly. Each tool had very good qualities but, the holmatro was the best all around performance. The holmatro was the tool of choice for my dept. When we evaluated our choices holmatro gave my dept. the biggest bang for our buck.


                • #23
                  Everytime a department gets a wild hair to switch to another brand, especially when they are non-compatible systems, they have to sell or trade off their "old" system. We have picked up several almost new tools and pumps because of this reason, for VERY cheap.

                  We currently have a huge collection of Hurst and TNT stuff for a single station department that would rival most. All because "the grass always looks greener......"

                  Daniel Furseth
                  Asst. Chief
                  Deerfield Fire Dept. (WI)


                  • #24
                    We wont be getting rid of the Hurst and Amkus equipment (I don't think, the new stuff will be purchased thru the Citizens Fire Academy Alumni Association to bypass City Hall political guff). We've got plenty of engines to put the "experienced" equipment on and administration tends to run eguipment 'til it falls apart. The old stuff is operable, there's just better available to put on RSQ so when we call for it, we'll know whatever we need is there. The Assistant Chief is trying to get a set and he is a confirmed Hurst man, but he may not get it thru the city manager's office, and if he does it may take forever and a day. Capt. Dan


                    • #25
                      This question seems to put people on edge, and it realy shouldn't. Everyone has their own particular tool they like to use. I haven't met one instructor that says it doesn't matter to them. Perhaps you were brought up on one tool, but this shouldn't be your deciding factor.

                      Each tool has there own unique qualities that may serve your department best. Perhaps a lighter weight tool for those members that might find one tool too heavy. Another might find one tool operating too fast for those that have little or limited use. Another tool is more forgiving and perfect for the rookie or those with little extrication experience. Are you looking for something that can be backpack for a downed A/C and can work on a battery, do you do a lot of heavy truck extrication?

                      The best way for you to choose the best tool for your department is to invite all the vendors to a drill (on separate days if possible) and let the rescue techs that will be using the tools try them out on some vehicles. Working under load is the only way to select a tool. Those that buy the tool may never use it, allowing those that do use it the oppertunity to have some imput seems to make good common sense.

                      Nothing worse than to force tools on someone that has no say on what they will be using, more resistance to the transition will make your job harder.

                      After the drill, sit everyone down and allow them to voice there opinion and perhaps put it to a non binding vote to bring it to your chief officer in charge of purchasing. Other factors that may sway your descision is cost and service from the vendor. This also should be descussed during your meetings, how long will it take to get parts, will you be supplied with a loaner?

                      I have viewed just about all the hydraulic tools on the market, spoke with factory representatives from the same, and they all can support justification for buying their product.

                      One company may have a better head on a ram, spreader tips, larger cutters, while another may have a better operating lever, and still another is lighter and faster. Over all what is it that your department needs the most, find this out and start from there.

                      Hurst was the forerunner of the hydraulic extrication tools, with competitors like Holmatro and others, it has forced all the companies to update their own products hence it has made better tools for us all.

                      Without a question both companies make a good product line, breaking the individual needs down is what makes the sale.

                      Good luck!
                      Ron Shaw


                      • #26
                        we have been using holmatro for 10 years.
                        had a hurst and holmatro demo the same day
                        and one of the reasons we went with holmatro
                        was the weight of the spreader. the other
                        reason was the controls. holmatro is easier.
                        hurst has been around a long time and make a
                        fine product. but, check around and find the
                        right one for you. don't get some thing just
                        because thats the way we have always done it.
                        good luck
                        ron koenig
                        1st asst.chief
                        black earth f.d.


                        • #27
                          i forgot to say that we also use tnt and are very happy with it. thats all folks


                          • #28
                            Well - TO EACH THIER OWN -

                            From a HURST dedicated user and supporter.

                            All of you are somewhat bickering about the tool. The only tool that can take a lick'n and keep tick'n is the HURST tool. From the ML's to the JL's and Ol' BIG BERTHA.... as the saying goes "Performance is everything"...... AMKUS - nope
                            HOLMATRO - nope
                            TNT - nope
                            PHOENIX - yeah, right

                            I'll tell ya what it all comes down to : Who invented the original "JAWS OF LIFE"? and why is it's known name is said around the world? PERFORMANCE - IS INDEED - EVERYTHING....


                            • #29
                              Being part of the Heavy Rescue Team on my dept. and the team captain of our extrication team for the T.E.R.C. Competitions we have had amkus,and hurst,and we now have genisis. We just got through with a trial period with TNT and we feel that TNT has the best tool. We won the SR/DR this year with TNT. And Capt. Dan we did put a head to head competition with TNT and Genisis and TNT won hands down.You will also get great support from the TNT people wich we haven't had much of in the past.


                              • #30
                                Thanks Team. Glad to hear from somebody who seems to have an open mind. I'm not saying, repeat not saying, that Hurst does not make good equipment. I've used it for 18 years. I'm only saying that there is more than one way to skin a cat and that anyone considering switching equipment should do so if circumstances indicate it would be beneficial to do so, whether you go by strength, weight, speed, support, compatability, mutual aid interoperability or if you just like to way the thing works and your comfortable with it. I've also used Amkus for 10 years or so and have tried many others. T.N.T has demonstrated to me that they make good equipment and I would recommend that anyone try all the equipment they can get their hands on and turn a deaf ear to anyone who says there is only one way to do ANYTHING or only one manufacturer that makes satisfactory extrication equipment. Capt. Dan


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