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VSDS Project Continues!!

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  • VSDS Project Continues!!

    A VSDS Update From Ron Moore

    I closed the original VSDS thread. Too long to scroll through all the posts. We'll continue our discussion here with a new thread.

    The July edition of the University of Extrication will feature the VSDS story. What is exciting is that this is the magazine that will be given out to attendees at Firehouse Expo.

    Two important things;
    1) There will be a sample artist's sketch of what a VSDS form could look like. Problem is, until I actually tried to draw the thing, I never realized that there had to be two different views of the vehicle. Too much to show for just one line drawing. You'll see what i mean when the July issue comes out.

    In the sketch, you'll see a view looking down on a vehicle from directly overhead. You'll also see the second view looking broadside at the driver's side. Let me know what you think of this first attempt at designing a VSDS placard.

    2) Secondly, the locations for the VSDS needs to be finalized. Many support requiring it behind the rear license plate while others support it being on the sun visor like where that airbag safety message is now.

    The spot we agreed on for one placard is under the hood. Chances are you have to get there anyway.

    I hope this July article will really get things rolling! Talk it up!

  • #2
    I like the idea of the it being in the sunvisor.

    One advantage - You've got to get near there to access the patient anyway.

    One disadvantge - the owner of the vehicle may toss it out if it is not glued to the visor.

    Regarding the rear LP bracket location:

    One advantage - the vehicle owner may never know it is there so they can't lose it for us.

    One disadvantage - a good rear ender would eliminate access to it.

    What's the possiblity of getting them in all 3 places?

    Looking forward to the July story.

    [This message has been edited by S. Cook (edited June 14, 1999).]


    • #3
      Will this apply to buses/rigs as well? Battery location, fuel shutoff, engine kill switch w/ runaway engine, concerns w/ buses w/ "kneeling" feature, door opening features, etc.


      • #4
        Hi Ron ...
        Really impressed with the response you have had to this. Our dept. has asked for something along these lines as long as air bags have been out there. I beleive that the sunvisor and the underhood locations are your best bets, especially since that is where most factory warnings and such are posted to begin with.



        • #5
          Hi Ron,

          Allow me to say that the VSDS is an excellent concept.

          I would like to add to everyones comments here in that the VSDS should have the ability to be changed if needed. Many people like to "supe" up their vehicles change locations of parts etc. We should allow Mechanics, Body Shop Techs etc to make changes to the VSDS.

          An example Of this would be that I own a 97 Jeep Wrangler w/ driver and passenger airbags. I like many others who enjoy offroad driving am planning on replacing my bumpers. When I do so, Am planning on also removing the airbag sensors as I personally do not like airbags. Eventually I will remove the airbags all together. This would be a case where the VSDS for my vehicle (if it had one) would need to be updated.

          Possibly add a section on the reverse side for Mechanics, Body Shop Techs, Dealers etc to write down the changes.

          FF/EMT-B Paul Cullen
          United Steam Fire Eng. Co. 3
          Frederick MD.


          • #6
            I think that this project is an excellent idea. I am very interested in anything that has to do with making my extrication job easier and safer for myself and my patient. When you get further along in the policy stage and need fighting power to get it passsed as a regulation let me know. I know I can muster up many Maine firefighters who agree with this idea. Keep up the good work and I also want to say I really enjoy your column and look forward to reading it every month to see what new info is out that I can learn.

            [This message has been edited by UVAC106 (edited July 14, 1999).]


            • #7
              I go along with one of the brother's ideas to be able to update a VSDS sheet. Perhaps thou it might be a good idea to only allow mechanics or inspection stations the authority to alter the VSDS for a car.

              With regards to removing an airbag, as much as many of us don't like airbags they are here to stay. They will be around long after we are gone, it's no longer of a question of which car has them. And as tragic as it is, while they have caused deaths, the lives they save out weigh the risk in the eyes of the government.

              To remove an airbag in a vehicle that was equipped with them, puts great liability on the person doing so. Riders and future owner(s) thinking that they are protected by an airbag during an accident, will most likely be making a call to 1-900-LAWYERS as soon as they or the family can lift a phone. If you want to sell the vehicle, my guess would be that you might have to restore the airbag system first. Forgetting the violations that you may also be breaking, I would think it over.

              My suggestion would be to try to live with your favorite vehicle and avoid altering your SRS.

              Ron Shaw


              • #8
                In regards to VSDS, I think that the manufacturers must be made to put them in all new autos as soon as possible, as there are now thirteen spots that airbags are being placed in different types of autos. These sheets should also advise us of how long it takes after the battery is disconnected for the airbags to discharge the capisator. They should also contain the position of the canisters of compressed gas that are being used to deploy the roof mounted airbags.
                In my opion they should be in the area of the battery compartment, possibly as a part of the battery containment system, as we all teach that the battery cables should be disconnected in one manner or another.


                • #9
                  With the NTSB warning on side impact airbags as of late, It started me thinking about this. Was wondering if Ron Could Provide an Update.


                  • #10
                    Love the idea of VSDS. As to location, my vote is for under the license plate AND on the sunvisor as vehicles are designed to protect the occupants in the passenger compartment- maybe the protection will extend to objects in it. Behind the licence plate as most vehicle accidents I have seen where the force vectors are parallel to direction of travel most often involve damage to the front end, on the sunvisor to provide redundancy when the vehicle is struck from the rear.Also love the idea of noting capacitor decay time. Capt Dan


                    • #11
                      As far as a location is concerned, I would have to say, the sunvisor.

                      BUT--- I also think that there should be a 'Card File' that is published either annually , or semi-annually. The cards could be heavy stock paper, and laminated as well. This way, you can provide more information, you can write on both sides of the card.

                      The only reason that I don't think these cards should be published is, it is yet another thing for financially strapped Fire Departments to purchase. Is there any way that the auto industry could be forced to report the needed info to the NHTSA, and then they could use some of my hard earned tax money to print, laminate, and distribute these cards to the FD's that subscribe to them??? Just an idea.
                      If it's on the vehicle, it can be lost or damaged. If it's on the responding apparatus, the officer-in-charge can be telling his crew the dangers they should be looking for, and they will have a course of action to follow the moment they arrive on scene.

                      Aghhh, I don't know..... Maybe I'm just rambling.


                      • #12
                        Sunvisor is a good place, lets go with that.
                        Having the cards in the rig is good for training and review. I don't know about you guys, but we can't even tell if there are injuries by our dispatch methods, let alone what make, model and year the vehicle is that is in the accident. Unless it's the Northstar system, but I haven't been to an MVA with one of those yet. Stay safe.


                        • #13
                          OK so lets get this going.

                          Ron, do we need to start lobbying the auto manufacturers as individuals/departments or what?



                          • #14
                            Amen Brother Cook. Just point the way Ron. Capt. Dan

                            [This message has been edited by friday (edited October 21, 1999).]


                            • #15
                              After reviewing my post from the 19th, I have this to add.

                              Yes, let's get this program off the ground and implemented.

                              After reviewing different posts as to where on the car the 'VSDS' sticker should be placed; I feel that it should be a book, similar to what I mentioned in my earlier post. I don't know about you gentlemen (and Ladies), but every time that I have been at the scene of a MVA, the car was a shambles. SOOOO.... now we want to place a placard somewhere inside this crushed/mangled vehicle that we have to find before we start extricating patients???

                              Make the auto industry provide us with this information. Why don't we just make it clear that they will avoid ton's of litigation from families of firefighters/rescuers that were injured unnecessarily at the scene of accidents.....

                              These are my opinions. Thank you.


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