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  • What Would You Do scenario

    Here's a training scenario I set up this weekend at a Heavy Rescue class I was teaching to address NFPA 1670 Technician-level competencies.

    Passenger side of a cement mixer over onto the driver's side of a 4-door sedan. Seated and belted driver present in sedan at time of collision.

    What would you do?
    Attached Files
    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
    www.universityofextrication.com

  • #2
    More info please.Time of day,personnel available,mixer loaded or empty and what do I have available for equipment?T.C.

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    • #3
      The dirty version of what I would do is stabilize everything. Make entry through the passenger side doors. Do FSI, place patient in a KED and and bring em out the passenger side and onto a long back board. After that get a heavy wrecker to right the mixer. It may not be pretty, or complicated, or overly technical, but it mimimizes the hazard time. On a side not i am pretty sure the mixer was empty if not it would have caused more intrusion into the passenger compartment.
      After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one

      Official Minister of Philosophy of the IACOJ

      IACOJ Probie Crusty of the year 2003

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      • #4
        Had a very similar incident a couple of months back. Just replace the cement mixer with a dump truck loaded with stone (well, loaded BEFORE overturning) and face it the opposite way and you'd have our call.

        12TruckIrons had it right on. Just what we did! Stabilization was helped immensely by a couple heavy wreckers that were on the scene right away- talk about Johnny-on-the-spot! Between them and some well placed cribbing....

        Only other problem was the stone that had spilled out. Restricted access to the passenger side doors a little, but nothing that couldn't be worked around. Also, it happened right around the corner from an excavating equipment dealer, and they had a backhoe right there for us.

        The whole thing looked more difficult than it was. We were the backup rescue and were called because it appeared so tough. All in all, I'm sure the primary rescue would've done fine without us (but I'm still glad we went).

        Now, without the heavy wreckers, that's another story....
        TW
        Essex Junction Fire Dept.
        Vermont

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        • #5
          Two random thoughts/questions...

          One...(Rescue 101?)...in righting the mixer, would there be concern of "slosh" if it's loaded? That could cause a lot of side-to-side wobble, maybe even enough to roll opposite.

          Two, silly question, but would that much concrete sitting there be generating enough heat to make it unformortably warm? I doubt it, but just a silly table-top question that pops into my head.

          For my area, as I see it...

          a) hope it doesn't happen till the new sheeting & shoring trailer is in service with the new Quinebaug Valley Task Force 1...

          b) Until then, tow straps & chains to help secure the truck to our ET or Ladder, and crib underneath it. Once heavy wreckers arrive, they take over that roll + they can do a much better job with winches then I can with straps & chains. I'm not seeing many really strong points to crib to though. Plus call East Great Plains, which is the closest low-pressure air bags I know of.
          IACOJ Canine Officer
          20/50

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          • #6
            Oh, the other thought on this is to remember who has what in your community.

            During the daytime, our Highway crew could have the town's large Michigan loader anywhere in town within a half hour, and there's several gravel banks with very large loaders -- and that might be faster than a wrecker, especially if the local service is already on a call.

            On a smaller scale, one of our members just bought a JD 510 for his farm -- not big enough for this job, but if you ever need a backhoe/loader for damning & diking that's one heck of a unit that you always know where it is (on the farm, as opposed to contractors who could be anywhere). Gotta keep those resources in the back of your mind.
            IACOJ Canine Officer
            20/50

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            • #7
              Stabilise the car first, then get people working on the truck.

              The rear passengers door comes off, the passenegers seat and rear seat come out, we can now check if the drivers seat can be wound back and or slid back.

              That can be done while waiting for the heavy equipment to arrive, and at least the medics now have good clean access.

              neck brace and backboard and get the driver out of there if possible.

              No need to rip the whole side out, I think the passengers B pillar is providing good roof integrity, chop that and you have a real problem.
              Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
              Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

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              • #8
                Here's one for you to think about.Right the mixer BEFORE to try to move your patients.(Kevlar chaps on,cooling pacs energized)With two heavy hyd,or 1 heavy, one medium it's a relatively simple process to remove the mixer from the car.You use the medium duty to "catch"the mixer as it settles back onto it's wheels.The cement seeks the lowest point so the drum MAY roll downward depending on the conditions of the units hydraulics.You then have unlimited access to the car for patient care.I'd crib before the lift just because I'm an untrusting soul but from hookup to stood up should be less than 5 min.T.C.

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                • #9
                  Right the mixer BEFORE to try to move your patients
                  I don't know Grandmaster101- I don't have the tow experience you have, but I'd be hesitant to attempt to right the mixer with a live casualty under it. I think I'd prefer to stabilise the mixer and make it as safe as possible in the current position and work from there.

                  I have witnessed a winch fail in a controlled roll over training exercise on a Volvo car- scary thought to be around it given the possible weight configurations of a mixer!

                  Ron, do you have any other photos showing different angles and view points?
                  Luke

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                  • #10
                    i don't have the experience y'all have but first i'd find the driver of the cement truck or someone with experience and get the rotating drum in the back turned off or locked down. crib and use some of the resque jacks to stablize the cement truck. crib the car and take the doors off the car but leave the posts. KED the patient and remove.

                    i don't know about tipping the cement truck back with a patient under there. too many if's that we can if this to death.

                    question: is it possible or has anyone tried putting a rescue jack inside the car for this instance in the back seat on the driver's side to kinda hold up the roof? i know if the roof collapses with enough force the jack will go through the floor this is just an idea I was wondering about.
                    NREMT-P\ Reserve Volunteer Firefighter\Reserve Police Officer
                    IACOJ Attack

                    Experts built the Titanic, amateurs built the Ark.

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                    • #11
                      Using the resources I have locally in "real life"...

                      1. Call for the city's Heavy Rescue unit.
                      2. Call for the big rig wrecker(s).
                      3. Helicopter on standby.

                      And then, the extrication itself...

                      I was hedging for a bit about how much supporting of the truck is being done by the car roof, but it looks to me like it's being supported pretty much wholly on the left side, crushed down to the window sill level (of the car). I know not to ever assume anything , but I'm thinking the roof of the car won't go much further.

                      I wonder if the tension buttresses we have could support a vehicle of this size, fixed against the undercarriage of the cement mixer? I'd certainly try that and use it in conjunction with other shoring and cribbing to keep it in place. I'm not sure how sturdy the hopper on the back of the mixer is, but I might try box-cribbing up to it for an added bit of support.

                      The car obviously needs cribbing and wedges as well - my initial thought is to wedge it well on the passenger side, based on the assumption that the truck is trying to 'push' the car out that direction.

                      For the actual extrication, I'm going to take both doors off the passenger side along with the B-post. If there is a separate passenger seat in front (as opposed to a bench seat), I may remove the seat too, if it'll give me any more room to operate.

                      I don't know how easy it will be to jack the dash, but it looks like it may have to be done.. I'd have to be able to see what the driver's corner looks like to decide that. Also, I would be wary of moving the dash since I mentioned earlier that I think the car's structure is still supporting the mixer.

                      After all that, it seems like a fairly straight extrication out the passenger side, if the entanglement is minimal.

                      Reminds me of an incident we had here a month or two ago. A 5 ton dump truck towing a trailer with a mini-backhoe and Bobcat went through a line of about 7 or 8 stopped cars at a red light and ended up atop a Saturn. The Saturn ended up in between the truck's front wheels and the saddle tanks, and it took the heavy rescue team and the big rig wrecker to lift the truck up about 6' in the air before the car could be removed - sadly, the driver didn't make it.

                      --j.
                      --jay.

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                      • #12
                        Leftenant reading 101

                        Luke,Speed reading again aren't we.Notice the key words CRIB AND LIFT.I've seen stuff fail too,but this particular scenerio properly rigged has sufficent redundancy to safely lift it off your patients.As far as locking down the drum,you can't.You can cross chain it with binders and retard the turning motion but the concrete will seek(and find)the lowest point.Note the angle of the mixer to the car.It's JUST beyond the balance point.Not a tremendous amount of weight here.Now we're working a two edged sword.You guys DON'T want to stand the mixer up with people in the car,yet you're all fat and happy to put yourselves in the same place to get them out.Interesting paradox isn't it?In this particular scene with things as they appear in the picture,I'm going to right the mixer.Increased speed of extrication,increased safety factor,increased mobility.If the picture was different I might have a different opinion.Anytime LIFE SAFETY is involved you must crib,secure,and continue the process as lifting operations commence.I know I sound like a broken record,but get to /sponsor a BRR so you can see what properly applied resources can do for you.It's that important.This is a scene we do regularly,it's good 'cause mixers are a bit tricky to stabilise without specialized equipment.A lot has happened up here because of the efforts of a small group of towing companies who formed Towmasters of NH.These folks have put on several programs to integrate Towing with Fire/Rescue.And they will continue to do so.BRR is not a luxury,it's a necessity.It's a real eye opener.T.C.
                        Last edited by Rescue101; 09-23-2003, 09:32 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Rescue101..

                          What would you do in a situation where a heavy wrecker was unavailable to make the lift to right the mixer?

                          In my area it's not unusual to have a 1-2 hour response time for such specialized towing/recovery rigs.

                          --j.
                          --jay.

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                          • #14
                            Front view of this simulation......
                            Attached Files
                            Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
                            www.universityofextrication.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Driver's side view of the 4-door sedan.

                              (For all you responders who work in right-hand steering countries, bear with me. This IS the real driver's side!)
                              Attached Files
                              Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
                              www.universityofextrication.com

                              Comment

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