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Who is the governing body when EMS does the Extrication?

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  • Who is the governing body when EMS does the Extrication?

    Without going into the debate of who should be running the extrication (in my town the FD does not), I am questioning who makes the rules.
    When the FD has the duty, they are governed under NFPA 1970. If, God forbid, something goes wrong, they (the Lawyers) will scrutinize your training, manning, and tactics as per the NFPA.
    Being an EMS agency, we are not subject to NFPA standards or rule, although they are what are followed by my agency.
    We have a clean record of doing it right, I need to know if we come up against the judicial system, my officers & I are not hung out to dry.

    And by all means, If I am in error in what I post, please correct me.
    Thanks,
    Joe
    A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

  • #2
    Welcome to NJ, where extrication is the red headed bastard stepchild! (no offense to redheads) It used to be taught as part of basic firefighting, then it was taught as part of EMT, now it's back to basic firefighting. All this in a state that has no standards/qualifications/requirements to be an extrication instructor. Anyone can go and run/teach a class. NJ DFS has no qualifications/rules, NJ DOH has no qualifications/rules. Side question, if you teach a class, and one of the students does something wrong and claims that's how they were taught....how protected are you?

    Joe, I have written/talked with both state agencies about this. They both mostly sidestep the issue. The last class I took on extrication at a local academy, the instructor had never actually done extrication! There are some very good people out there teaching, unfortunately, there are some very bad people also. I asked Ron Moore about something similar, his suggestion is what I have chosen to follow. Get his book, it's recognized/used by a few other states as their guidelines. Go by the book and you can claim that as your SOP. Don't know if it will help, but at least it's something. Find other EMS Squads that do extrication and make sure you are somewhat in alignment with what they do. Roebling and Forked River are ones that I know do extrication on the EMS side, or at least used to. I already told you I use Ron's book, so that's what my Squad follows.

    Man, I wish someone would tell me I'm wrong and NJ does have better standars on this.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    • #3
      NFPA 1006 Professional Standard for Rescue Technician and NFPA 1670 Operations and Training for Technical Rescue would be very helpful in designing standards and SOPS for extrication. Pennsylvania has a 40 hr state certified course that a number of our guys took, it was excellent. Bones, NJ is hit and miss as far as extrication instruction. Camden County has a core of very experienced rescue instructors that teach an excellent 3 level program from the basics to heavy truck and bus. I know they have traveled to several other counties to teach. We'll get a state rescue program when the State Police find a way to get a grant to teach it!...

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      • #4
        Being an EMS agency, we are not subject to NFPA standards or rule
        Why do you think that?
        TW
        Essex Junction Fire Dept.
        Vermont

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        • #5
          Re: Who is the governing body when EMS does the Extrication?

          Originally posted by SANDSTROMJM
          Without going into the debate of who should be running the
          Being an EMS agency, we are not subject to NFPA standards or rule, although they are what are followed by my agency.
          While EMS may not fall under NFPA, they will certainly be scrutinized for potential medical malpractice should something ever go to court. The barometer in such a case would be "accepted medical practices." Since I am not aware of "rescue" being taught as a "medical" skill, NFPA could very likely find its way back into the mix. So, even if you are not directly covered by NFPA, you might still be held to that standard.
          Richard Nester
          Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

          "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

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          • #6
            In my county the actual extrication itself is left under the command of the ranking fire officer on scene. However, most often the extrication will be done by what EMS feel is the safest and most efficient way for the situation at hand. So I guess technically Fire is in charge, but most often it is a joint effort of all agencies working together.

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            • #7
              Firemoose
              In my county the actual extrication itself is left under the command of the ranking fire officer on scene. However, most often the extrication will be done by what EMS feel is the safest and most efficient way for the situation at hand. So I guess technically Fire is in charge, but most often it is a joint effort of all agencies working together.
              That would be the answer if it was FD run, but in my situation, extrication is EMS only.
              Joe
              A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

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