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  • #16
    Ok, try again
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    • #17
      Wooden cribbing pieces

      Regarding wooden cribbing pieces, it is important to seek out information regarding the load rating of compression perpendicular to the grain. This figure is typically expessed in 'psi' and varies greatly among various woods. Best sources for information are engineering books and timber resource associations. I've done considerable research on the topic and have included it in a handout given to students. There is lots more than simply "stacking wood"!

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      • #18
        That will teach ya not to hammock

        Dal,thanks for the laugh;I needed that.Mebbe you SHOULD have used a piece of chestnut.I think the reason I favor PT is I don't mind the weight(keeps the front wheels on the ground)and it doesn't go bad(rot)nearly as quick.Leave it to Z-mag to give us a great visual image.T.C.

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        • #19
          So I take it that you guys are not to fond of plastic cribbing. Alot of the points you've brought up are good points that I haven't experienced. I guess you could call it " Good Luck"!!

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          • #20
            Wood Rules! We have found Versa-Lam, to work very well for step chocks, and cribbing. It is a little heavy, but it's durability is second to none, the stuff doesn't break. If it does break it bows and streches, it does not snap. If anybody wants a pic of it e-mail me and I will send you one.

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            • #21
              Hmmm...

              Dalmatian's Laminated Dunnage Company...I may have to insulate by garage/workshop before winter now
              IACOJ Canine Officer
              20/50

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              • #22
                The plastic cribbing is ok in a situation where there is not much chance of a shift in the load
                *The cribbing gets slippery and dislodges easier
                but slipperier as well
                Reading these comments, and many more, in 12 years of rescue I've used a majority of timbers and more recently (5 or so years) the plastics.

                I've never seen plastic slip or dislodge if placed correctly....

                As Grandmaster101 said, there's a fine art to cribbing correctly. Incorrect cribbing can be just as dnagerous as no cribbing as it can give you a false sense of security.

                As for you guys operating in snow and cold conditions, we're we operate, we'd be lucky to get below 5 degrees celsius! (It does happen, but not all that common) To me that's cold!!!!
                Last edited by lutan1; 11-21-2003, 02:54 AM.
                Luke

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                • #23
                  Working in the tropics

                  5 C?That's shirtsleeve weather.T shirt that is.Come see me the end of Dec. or the first of Jan.,we'll go ice fishing.Watch the fish flop about 3 times before he's flash frozen.At still air temps of -40F,you do the wind chill factoring.How's your watermelon factor?Must be getting noticeable by now.Congratulations dude!T.C.

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                  • #24
                    Plastic Cribbing's Un-Planned Benefit

                    "THE USE OF CRIBBING DURING AN ACTUAL RESCUE IS DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL TO THE PERCENTAGE OF TIMES THE DEPARTMENT USES CRIBBING DURING EXTRICATION TRAINING!"

                    That said, I'm reminded of the 20 something firefighter who, during a break at a regional fire/rescue school, admitted: "none of the fire departments in our county cribbed at MVA's. It takes to much time, and besides, cribbing takes up to much room on the pumper."

                    Upon hearing this, the lead instructor and I decided to ammend the course content slightly by expanding the vehicle stabilization block. After a late August Saturday afternoon of working every scenario twice; once without and once with cribbing in place, the collective opinion was that they all needed to go back to their FD's and preach the virtues of stabilization through cribbing. Wood and plastic "locking" cribbing was put to extensive use that afternoon. Both types had believers and non-believers. But something I heard from a local fire chief who was observing the class opened my eyes to an un-planned benefit of the plastic "locking" cribbing:

                    Holding an 18" length of plastic "locking" cribbing in his hands as he spoke, he boldly stated:

                    "This stuff is fast and easy to use! The way it locks together, it's almost firefighter proof. And besides, IF I CONVINCE OUR FIRE DISTRICT BOARD TO SPEND MONEY ON IT, THEY'RE DAMN SURE GOING TO USE IT AT EVERY WRECK OR THEY'LL BE EXPLAINING TO ME WHY NOT!"

                    Many of the contributors to this forum may not agree with the reasoning, but if "spending money on it" results in the expanded use of cribbing at MVA's, I'll take it and we'll save lives.

                    FYI:
                    "Nothing manufactured for use in fire and rescue can be produced to the universally desired standard of FIREFIGHTER PROOF. Within the limits of modren engineering, the best we can strive for is to produce a product that is at minimum FIREFIGHTER RESISTANT!"
                    Remember, please be SAFE out there!

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                    • #25
                      Uh, how does owning plastic cribbing mean you are going to use cribbing more in training, and thereby use it more on actual incidents?

                      Look at the pictures... look at what you lose in available height when you use the lincoln-log type.

                      I already feel we don't carry enough. I don't want to lose stack height by switching to interlocking plastic unless there is a really good reason to do so.

                      I'm certainly not convinced that one is "easier" than the other. Spending a lot of money on something doesn't always translate into it being used more routinely, or it being a better product.
                      God Bless America!Remember all have given some, but some have given all.
                      Google Is Your Friend™Helpful forum tip - a "must see" if you're new here
                      Click this to search FH Forums!

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                      • #26
                        IF YOU HAVE IT WILL YOU USE IT???

                        CONCERNING ISSUE #1:

                        "Uh, how does owning plastic cribbing mean you are going to use cribbing more in training, and thereby use it more on actual incidents?"

                        Owning ANYTHING doesn't imply its use. Example: We pass out condoms in the schools and the teen pregnancy rate continues to rise!

                        Remember the old saying: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force him to drink!" Adapted to our business, this could easily read: "You can send a firefighter to training, but you can't force him to learn something new!"

                        The Chief quoted in my previous post, made his statement concerning interlocking plastic cribbing AFTER watching his fire/rescue personnel use both wood and interlocking plastic cribbing for an entire afternoon; and then working with it himself for about 45 minutes.

                        His statement is self-explanatory:

                        "IF I CONVINCE OUR FIRE DISTRICT BOARD TO SPEND MONEY ON IT, THEY'RE DAMN SURE GOING TO USE IT AT EVERY WRECK OR THEY'LL BE EXPLAINING TO ME WHY NOT!"

                        Any Chief out there who doesn't catch HIS drift?


                        CONCERNING ISSUE #2:

                        "Look at the pictures... look at what you lose in available height when you use the lincoln-log type."

                        The pictures you refer to depict wood cribbing cut to a true 4" x 4" dimension, compared to the CRIBLOX brand of plastic interlocking cribbing (the brand in your picture) which is cut closer to a "lumberyard" 3.5" x 3.25" dimension.

                        As everything in life involves some compromise, in this effort you will loose .75" for every level you go up because locking crib blocks are in fact smaller. However, you gain SAFETY in the addition of multiple points of contact, at multiple angles on each level. Put simply: IT LOCKS TOGETHER! If the appication calls for another level, do it. Just be glad that with locking cribbing the crib blocks hold together when the load shifts!

                        Of course, I still don't like the decreased peripheral vision caused by the edges of my SCBA mask. However, I do continue to wear it when the situation calls for SCBA as its' advantages far outweigh this disadvantage.
                        Remember, please be SAFE out there!

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                        • #27
                          Good reply EEResQ
                          Luke

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                          • #28
                            Negative on the 4x4's ...they are the standard Home Depot 3 5/8 X 3 5/8. I know this becouse they are mine. The point was not "If you need more height just add another layer" it was "We are all pressed for compartment space" If you have one of those new BLS units (block long squad) and compartment space is not an issue then by all means go with what you wish. My point was I have to carry 6 more pieces to do the same job. And thats just one stack. To build 4 stacks I would need 24 more pieces, thats a whole other compartment.

                            Zmag

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                            • #29
                              Yes, that was what I was getting at also. Thanks.
                              God Bless America!Remember all have given some, but some have given all.
                              Google Is Your Friend™Helpful forum tip - a "must see" if you're new here
                              Click this to search FH Forums!

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                              • #30
                                SAFETY = #1

                                "My point was I have to carry 6 more pieces to do the same job."

                                OK, carry the six more pieces of cribbing and use it with the understanding that in the event that the load shifts, "INTERLOCKING CRIBBING HOLDS TOGETHER" as it has been ENGINEERED to do so.

                                In this business when new equipment comes along that permits us to work SAFER, we should PLAN to design our new apparatus around that equipment. How many of us would say, "...No, we don't need them", when asked if we wanted to have SCBA cylinder storage tubes installed in the unused space forward and aft of the wheelwells? With a little effort, we can also adapt older units to carry additional cribbing if our mission statement calls for us to be prepared for accidents that require larger quantities of cribbing. WOOD or PLASTIC, very few of us carry enough cribbing on any one vehicle to do the job safely if it involves more than the average 2 car MVA. That needs to change.

                                The real point is, "DO WE WANT TO MAKE THE EFFORT" and adapt this new technology as it is applied to a very old process?

                                PHOTO #1: 24 Plastic "Locking" Crib Blocks stacked in an interlocking configuration (so as to take up less space) when stored in a smaller apparatus compartment. Space required: 13.5" high X 19.5" wide X 21.5" deep.

                                PHOTO #2: 24 Plastic "Locking" Crib Blocks in a standard "Box Crib" with a supported top layer. 33" high X 18" wide X 18" deep. Every block is locked to the others with between 12 and 18 points of contact at three angles each!
                                Remember, please be SAFE out there!

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