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  • "Cut the I-Pillar"

    Consider this vehicle....

    Is total roof removal possible?
    It has an A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,&I-pillar.

    There are only three doors, total!!

    What would you make a 'third door'?

    How much cribbing would it take to actually stabilize this thing?

    The occupant load is 20 and there are NO seatbelts inside the paying customer area!!

    Just something for rescue and EMS personnel to think about.
    Attached Files
    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
    www.universityofextrication.com

  • #2
    If there was a need to remove the entire roof, I'm sure it could be done. The easiest way would probably be to segment the roof in to smaller areas, and simply remove sections at a time. Air chisel, reciprocating saw, panel cutters, etc.

    Since this seems like it would be a time consuming evolution, it would probably make more sense to only remove enough roof area to enable patients to be extricated.

    Stabilization... might need some extra cribbing if the integrity of the vehicle is comprimised. If it's no longer on its wheels, most rescues probably won't have enough equipment to effectively stabilize this type of vehicle. We only have 2 tensionned buttress stabilization devices, and I'm thinking 4 minimum would be needed.

    Another point... lot's of square feet of glass to control if it's still in place upon your arrival.

    School bus evolutions might be adaptable to a vehicle like this.
    Last edited by Resq14; 06-14-2003, 01:16 PM.
    God Bless America!Remember all have given some, but some have given all.
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    • #3
      Would there be a need to remove it all? If this vehicle was in a MVA, would the entire roof be damaged to a point to were it would need to be removed totally, the only thing I could think of is a roll over. Keep in mind, I don't know too much about extrication, and could use some help.
      No longer an explorer, but I didn't wanna lose my posts.

      IACOJ 2003

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      • #4
        O.K. - my 2 cents worth.

        Stabilization on level ground shouldn't be a big deal. This vehicle normally has only 4 points of contact (wheels) so I'd think that only 4 points of cribbing would be needed.

        Take that sucker off the road into a ditch or whatever - then all bets are off. Struts are a great idea at this point.

        School bus evolutions might be adaptable to a vehicle like this.
        BINGO! The construction may not be quite as strong as a school bus, but the techniques should work quite well.

        Instead of roof removal (unless you just HAD too) - I would probably opt for making extra doors by removing 2 windows and the separating post (thus making a larger window). If that did not provide enough space, then (depending on the interior contents) you could then extend the sides of your new window down to floor level and fold it out - making a very large door.

        If roof removal was a must do - I agree w/ Resq14 that it would best be done in sections.
        Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
        Stephen
        FF/Paramedic
        Instructor

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        • #5
          throw in something that's not in the pic. most limo's have a sunroof, how does this help or hinder the situation?
          NREMT-P\ Reserve Volunteer Firefighter\Reserve Police Officer
          IACOJ Attack

          Experts built the Titanic, amateurs built the Ark.

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          • #6
            Stretch-trication

            Good one Ron. Not many of us go on too many of these vehicles in need of extrication. (except maybe the brothers in LA, NYC, and Vegas).

            The need to remove the "entire" roof is not likely. It would however make more sense to make a HUGE opening especially if it is on its side.

            Stabilizing should be just a matter of "stretching" out our points and adding 2-4 more points. So instead of an initial 6 point stabilization we would now have 8-10 points.

            As for opening it up a bit more to remove the "unrestrained" victims in the cabin. After removing the windows A good option would be to do a panel cut down just behind the C-pillar then cut the tops of both D and E pillars next do another panel cut down in front of F-Pillar then lower the side gate (after a couple baseline relief cuts. The opening should then be plenty big enough to move people in and out of the vehicle.

            Something else to ascertain form the rescuer inside the cabin would be to find out what internal structural obstacles (side couches, bars, TV's) that may hinder operations from the outside.

            A high speed side impact of this vehicle would create a whole new set of issues because the car would wrap more easily because of it's length.

            Never say never, and never say always....

            fraternally, Jordan
            "Making Sense with Common Sense"
            Motor Vehicle Rescue Consultants
            ( [email protected]) Jordan Sr.

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            • #7
              A high speed side impact of this vehicle would create a whole new set of issues because the car would wrap more easily because of it's length.
              I really wonder if it would wrap easier- when you consider a vehicle of this length, it must have a pretty strong chassis so as to prevent flex, so surely one would assume (I know, I know, we shouldn't assume! ) that it would be designed fairly rigidly to take the flex, plus the weight of the occupants....

              It's interesting that seatbelts are not inside limo's. I really question the reasoning behind this- oh, that's right, rich people don;t have accidents!!!
              Luke

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              • #8
                Police probing limousine crash that killed 1, hurt 5

                Published in the Asbury Park Press 6/27/03
                By A. SCOTT FERGUSON
                TOMS RIVER BUREAU
                DOVER TOWNSHIP -- State Police yesterday continued to investigate why a limousine veered off the Garden State Parkway on Wednesday and crashed into several trees, killing one person and injuring five others.

                Greer Henderson, 71, of Westfield, Union County, a passenger in the rear of the limousine, was pronounced dead at the scene after suffering trauma to the head and body, authorities said.

                The driver, Roy A. Williams, 29, of Scotch Plains, and Jenette McRichmond, 35, of Piscataway, who was sitting next to Williams, were treated at Community Medical Center, Toms River, for their injuries and released.

                The other three passengers, Kathleen Mastrangelo, 60, Richard Mastrangelo, 72, and Greer Henderson's wife, Barbara, 68, all of Westfield, were taken to Jersey Shore Medical Center, Neptune, where they were listed in stable condition, said Detective Stephen Jones, a state police spokesman.

                Jones said he was not sure about the Mastrangelos' relationship.

                The limousine was in the northbound lanes, returning from a trip to the Trump Plaza in Atlantic City, when it crashed near milepost 86. It appeared that Greer Henderson was sitting on the side of the vehicle that slammed into several trees.

                "He was the right-rear passenger, and he obviously sustained greater injury due to the impact with the trees," Jones said of Greer Henderson.

                The 2000 Lincoln limousine is owned by Gemini Limousine of Westfield. The state police fatal accident and commercial vehicle units continued to inspect the car yesterday.

                It did not appear that alcohol played any part in the accident, authorities said. No charges were filed as of yesterday and the crash remained under investigation.

                Anyone with information about the crash is asked to call Trooper Jeffrey Breunig at the Bass River Station at (609) 296-0503.
                A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

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                • #9
                  Saw a vehile yesterday that was similar to this except instead of all those pillars and windows, the sides were just metal. There was only a door on each side at the very rear. It looked like a stretched out van, big metal sides, no doors, no windows. Guess you might have to take a sawzall and make some doors about half way between front and back?
                  "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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                  • #10
                    Guess you might have to take a sawzall and make some doors about half way between front and back?
                    You know Bones, I reckon it'd give any rescuer a perverse sense of satisfaction cutting up one of these stretch limos!
                    OOOOOOHHHHH YEH!
                    Luke

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