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Extrication Question

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  • brozt316
    replied
    http://youtu.be/mj7iYc3aCc0

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  • mtngael
    replied
    Originally posted by CGITCH View Post
    So? Shoot your way in?
    I was just making the point that armored vehicles aren't THAT armored. Especially the windows. They'll stop handgun bullets and that's it.

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  • GFD615
    replied
    Whether or not your extrication tools are capable of making entry on a Armored Vehicle is the least of my concerns on this type of rescue.

    If the occupants are unconcious...begin extrication if law enforcement is on-scene. If the occupants are concious, chances are they will not let you enter and will protect entry with their lives. Typically, they will authorize entry only after another Armored Vehicle is present to transfer the load. These security guards are armed and required to protect millions of dollars in cash, it is not a good idea to make entry without authorization from the Armored Car company and/or a law enforcement officer present. The last thing you want is to have the Brinks report say "missing money after rescue"

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  • CGITCH
    replied
    Originally posted by mtngael View Post
    Both high powered rifles AND many devices available to the fire service will defeat these vehicles.
    So? Shoot your way in?

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  • mtngael
    replied
    Being a former armored service employee, I can add in a little info. Not all armored cars are created equal. The vans are usually stock vans that have been turned into armored vehicles by a specialty company rather than built as armored vehicles from the ground up. So the armor is added behind the normal vehicle skin rather than integral. The windows are usually armored with sheets of lexan placed behind the windows. With the vans, the locking and latching mechanisms are usually within a box-like structure but again the skin and hinges are normal. The larger armored trucks have bodies that are built from the ground up to be armored vehicles. But they're meant to protect mainly from small-arms fire and forcible entry with hand tools. Both high powered rifles AND many devices available to the fire service will defeat these vehicles.

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  • mikeyboy
    replied
    Auto X of Armored Car

    We have had some pretty challenging extrication jobs due to the Army up-armoring most of their vehicles. We bought an oxyacetylene torch/kit for these vehicles. A few relief cuts and with our high-pressure Amkus tools we're in; I'm sure that this would work in the case of an Armored Car.

    If this didn't work my next option would be to attack the hinges with our K12 Rotary Saw.

    A chainsaw to the window may work also, dunno haven't tried it.
    Last edited by mikeyboy; 02-27-2011, 04:22 PM.

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  • RFD21C
    replied
    I took a heavy truck extrication class about a year ago. We some how had acuried an old amored truck to cut up.

    We found that the best way to get in was to cut the hinges with a partner saw and basicly force the door from the hinge side with a set of irons. This one had steel strap hinges on the outside of the door. Cutting through the exterior skin was doable but was slow going with a plasma cutter.

    The windows were basicly uncuttable with the tools we had on hand. We found the best way was to beat it out with a flat head axe. For the most part most of the "armor" slowed us down but did not defeat us. I think the truck was designed to look tougher then it looked.

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  • emt161
    replied
    Keep in mind that the guards will likely assume that any crash is a set-up and defend their cargo appropriately.

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  • gunnyv
    replied
    There's a couple old threads with some info if you do a search:

    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...or+extrication

    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...or+extrication

    While I never had to do it while in Iraq (I was working civil affairs rather than crash crew), what I heard discussed in our community was an emphasis on windows and hinges. K-12s and plasma torches were preferred.

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  • tree68
    replied
    Originally posted by texasmedic01 View Post
    Where did you take this class?
    Can't speak to the class, but I read a while back that the rest of the world takes an amused view of our fixation on spinal immobillization. Wish I could remember where....

    As I recall, they work toward clearing the C-spine, especially, on scene. I'm sure they err on the side of caution, but not to the extent we do here in the US, where even the hint of a possible spinal injury gets the full treatment.

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  • IronValor
    replied
    As it started to weigh on My mind a little bit more I decided that I would Contact Garda. I identified Myself as a Firefighter and asked to speak to somebody about this very question and what some of the procedures would be if something like this should ever happen. I was told that they would not give that information up. I told them I understood completely and asked if they would like to set up a training session with Our Fire Department sort of a face to face thing and My information was taken and told somebody would be in contact with me. So far nothing.

    I figure if you can get into the cab region and get the driver free. Then He would have access to the box. In any event I agree with former posts that state you should clearly ID yourself and call the Company to have a rep enroute. If all else fails just keep cutting and peeling untill something breaks loose.

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  • texasmedic01
    replied
    Originally posted by sfd1992 View Post
    In a war zone that's probably a great idea, but as far as a Fire Service application I don't think it's too practical.

    "Gun the throttle and rip the door off" doesn't do much for C-spine/back/any injuries.
    There have been studies that have been done by the deparment of defense and by the Army Medical Center and School that shows that in the majority of IED blast that are able to disable the vehicle that there is a very small chance of C-spine injuries, and more commonly the crew will have L-spine and T-spine injuries if any from the explosion if it occured under the truck; However you are correct in about jerking the door off of a truck in a civillian setting being a terible idea. The rough estimate of an 1151 up-armored HMMVEE's weight is somewhere in the neighborhood of 12,000 pounds, and the latches on the doors are designed to fracture to facilitate extraction using commercial devices like the OP mentioned, or in our case a tow stap and a shackle. While deployed to Iraq in 200-2008 as a combat medic with 2BCT 3ID, I was more concerned with what type of life threatening hemmorage, or amputation the occupants may have suffered.

    Originally posted by admpaul View Post
    The military does not take C spine and there are studies to show that they have less injuries they when we pull people out. Often time when the collar is put on it pushes the neck up causing verterbe (sp) to push together and crack if there is a fracture. I just took a class about this, was very intersting.
    Where did you take this class? This is some information that s just now being taught to new medics and I was unaware that this research had made it out to the civillian sector yet. Its good to know that its out there, but its surprising how quickly information can move these days.

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  • LaFireEducator
    replied
    Originally posted by admpaul View Post
    Take the money and run??? LOL
    Did Billy Joe catch up with her the very next day???

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  • Bushwhacker
    replied
    Another thing to worry about is going to be the gaurds that have gotten knocked around a bit. All they know is that it could be a heist, MAKE SURE you announce your selfs and what is going on.

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  • Rescue101
    replied
    Originally posted by admpaul View Post
    Take the money and run??? LOL
    TRUST ME,it will be MORE than a ten minute job. SURROUNDED by Many,Many GUNS. T.C.

    Leave a comment:

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