How many can you think of...

[billyleach]

Doubtless there are hundreds, however how many extrication training scenarios can you suggest? Think about past issues you've faced with vehicles, positions, etc and list a couple of really challenging training scenarios for us all to consider.

[pasobuff]

Vehicle upside down -(injured) occupants hanging by seat belts.....vehicle unstable on slope/snow.

[billyleach]

Not bad..sounds good.

I'm thinking a side-resting auto with roof against large tree. Impact produced major damage that resulted in auto "wrapped" around the tree. Viable patients inside requiring extrication.

Would you...

A. Stabilize the auto 'as found' and 'open the car up'

or

B. Control winch the vehicle from the tree (after patients are stabilized as best as possible) and operate 'normally' with an upright vehicle extrication

or

C.

or

D.

Lets hear from folks! What do you think?

[Rescue101]

Not bad..sounds good.

I'm thinking a side-resting auto with roof against large tree. Impact produced major damage that resulted in auto "wrapped" around the tree. Viable patients inside requiring extrication.

Would you...

A. Stabilize the auto 'as found' and 'open the car up'

or

B. Control winch the vehicle from the tree (after patients are stabilized as best as possible) and operate 'normally' with an upright vehicle extrication

or

C.

or

D.

Lets hear from folks! What do you think?

You KNOW what I would do. And it goes AGAINST the thinking of 90% of the respondents here. With the USUAL admonishment:"you don't know what you're doing". If I can SAFELY cut the extrication time by 50% AND INCREASE the patients viability by using winches,it's GONNA happen. And YES; I KNOW what I'm doing. AND HOW to do it. Would you be talking roof first or side impact here,not that it matters for my answer? T.C.

[jonnycutter]

Hey Rescue101

No worries, i've been told i don't know what i'm doing before lol

I can see where you are coming from and would also consider the same technique pending on what i am faced with. This is still a recognised extrication technique and not one to be dismissed.

The time that can be saved will be advantageous.

If the vehicle it wrapped around the tree there is likely to be very little access to the casualties, and airway management will be difficult. relocate the metal where or if needed and remove the vehicle from the tree, by controlled winching/airbag use. rapid casualty access and stabilisation and space creation/removal.

Jon

[Rescue101]

We've been having an ACTIVE discussion on this over at FFN. Let's just say I'm in a MINORITY. I will STILL use ALL the tools in my Box(and beyond)if I think it will influence a POSITIVE outcome. T.C.

[EastKyFF]

I have used a winch one time to move a vehicle with a patient still trapped inside. It was a Camaro that had slid driver's-door first into the end of a guardrail. I can't guess how many feet of that guardrail were wadded up over that patient. She had severe, bilateral open tib-fib fractures and had lost a lot of blood.

It wasn't my first choice, but I wasn't in charge anyhow! The IC considered several options and we tried them, but we were getting nowhere. After consideration, he decided it was an experienced group of firefighters and, given the patient's condition, a justified risk. We got her out quickly and she had a positive outcome--she is ALIVE...and walking.

[billyleach]

What about an upright car that has slammed a tree, causing major damage to one side. Would you perhaps move the car from the tree, or simply rely on opening up the opposite side from damage. Sure, there are many variables however just creating thought/discussion.

[Rescue101]

We USUALLY winch them off after a careful patient evaluation. We find that it is MUCH faster and better for the patient than trying to remove enough vehicle from the passenger side. 3 of them to date,all arrived at the hospital but one was lost due to the severity of the trama(NOT related to the extrication). T.C.

[FireInTheShire]

As far as I'm conserned if I need to get a patient out of a car safely then any well thought out plan is do-able. As long as it is SAFE, well THOUGHT OUT, and most importantly gets the patient out QUICKLY.

[billyleach]

There are always variables in every situation

[Bones42]

2 young ladies, in a 4 door Toyota, travelling north at 40mph. 18 wheeler backing up turning off highway onto side street. Trailer was full of Commodores band equipment. Ladies impact trailer just in front of rear wheels and make it 2/3 way under.

Oh yeah, brand new rescue truck is out of state as a demo at a show so have to use mutual aid equipment (which is minimal).

Heavy duty wrecker ETA 45 minutes.

Luckily...no life threatening injuries.


This happened to us a few years ago. Only accident involving a large truck that I can remember for 30+ years. Was a "think outside the box" moment for us.....with happy endings. (and yes, we tow trucked the vehicle out from under the trailer with the patients inside)

[billyleach]

Merely a suggestion...use Go-Jacks under the auto when moving. Simply just roll it away.

[Rescue101]

Go jacks in certain cases like underrides not always so good. They require a certain amount of LIFT to work. And Control on slopes CAN be an issue. Given my preferences a winch or comealong would be MY preference. Not that a Gojack isn't a handy tool but rather expensive for limited applications. T.C.

[rmoore]

So, one of the scenarios we're talking about is a basic underride. Here is a training scenario of underride.