Lighting Systems for Search & Rescue

[local717]

We have been mostly providing our lighting systems to the Mt. Bike community, with great results. But, recently we had a company by the name of Imago Metrics approach us about doing a review of one of our lights to be used for Search & Rescue.

here is the link to the review:

http://www.imagometrics.com/FLReviews/OttoX.htm

Just trying to get some feed back from people in the Industry, to see what people think.

[Riversong]

Just trying to get some feed back from people in the Industry, to see what people think.

Sorry, but no headlamp is worth $560. There are dozens of excellent units available for less than $150, including ones specifically designed for SAR professionals.

[gdsqdcr]

Why would anyone in this industry want to pay $560 for a light. I have to agree with RiverSong on this one.
Anthony

[local717]

Just trying to get some feed back. These lights are costly because they are handmade in Germany, and I'm sure they are way more functional than a $150 set. I have people saying that they cost to much for Mt. bikers, yet I sell many $1000 sets daily. I don't think you guys really read about the lights, I think you just looked at the price and said no way. In any case we have a very large selection of different types of lights that can fit you budget. Are kits start out at $300, and everything is compatible. Which means all batteries and lamps use the same connectors, so there is always room to upgrade.

[nmfire]

[local717]

http://blog.koehntopp.de/uploads/20040203-spam.jpg

your link doesn't work.

[N2DFire]

Just trying to get some feed back.

O.K.
Honest Feedback
Lupine Systems-Otto X vs. Pelican Products 2680
Using Mfg supplied Specs from their own web sites unless otherwise noted.

http://www.lupine-lights.com/index.php?lang=us

http://www.pelican.com/lights_detail_specs.php?recordID=2680

Weight
Otto X - 580g (w/ battery pack per owners manual)
2680 - 270g with batteries

Power Source
Otto X - Rechargable Battery Pack
2680 - 4 AA batteries

On longer operations it's a lot easier & cheaper to have spare batteries that extra battery packs - not to mention you assume a means to recharge the battery which may not exist.

Water Proof
Otto X - From the Owners Manual: All components of the OTTO X are waterproof and will withstand even the most extreme conditions. However, it is not a diving lamp and therefore not suitable for use under water.

2680 - submersible to 500 feet

Warranty
Otto X - From the Owners Manual: The two year warranty covers defects in materials or workmanship only. Bulbs and batteries are not covered by this warranty. Modifications to the light or improper use also voids this warranty.

2680 - If for any reason you are not satisfied with the quality or performance of the Pelicanâ„¢ product you have purchased, Pelicanâ„¢ Products will gladly replace the product or refund your money (at your option) within 30 days after the purchase through the original Dealer/Retailer.

Pelicanâ„¢ Products will continue to guarantee the product directly, against breakage or defects in workmanship. This guarantee does not cover the lamp or batteries in lights. The o-rings must be kept greased (and replaced if damaged) per product instructions. (Replace o-rings annually or when damaged.)
Any liability, either expressed or implied is limited to replacement of the product. This guarantee is void only if the Pelicanâ„¢ product has been abused beyond normal and sensible wear and tear. The guarantee does not cover shark bite, bear attack and children under five.

http://www.pelican.com/support/guarantee.php

Light Output v Run Time
Otto X - 550 Lumens (for 25W halogen lamp) - 1 Hour 50 Minutes
1 Watt LED - 40 Hours (Lumen output not given - Based on Info found in the technical section of the web site - 120 Lumens max for 3.5 Watt LED = 120/3.5 = 34 Lumens at 1 Watt)

2680 - 33 Lumens (at 1 Watt LED) - 33 Hours

Price
Otto X - $560.00 Suggested Retail
2680 - $83.95 Suggested Retail


Now - I will admit that the ultra bright 25 Watt light is great and if I were tear-assing down some bike trail in the dark it would be great - the down side is it's only good for just under 2 hours.

Now I currently have a 3610 (Little Ed) on my turn out coat - it's rated at 32 Lumens 1 Watt for 32 hours on the same 4 AA batteries and I can tell you first hand that compared to regular incandescent bulbs this thing is doggone bright and In 16 years of Fire, EMS, and Tech Rescue work - I have yet to find a need for any more light than this.

I don't doubt that the Lupine lights aren't top notch but I didn't see or read anything that would justify the extra expense.

[tecrsq]

We have been mostly providing our lighting systems to the Mt. Bike community, with great results. But, recently we had a company by the name of Imago Metrics approach us about doing a review of one of our lights to be used for Search & Rescue.

here is the link to the review:

http://www.imagometrics.com/FLReviews/OttoX.htm

Just trying to get some feed back from people in the Industry, to see what people think.

Interesting light that you are marketing but I will also have to admit that there are very reputable manufacturers out there selling us quality lights at a fraction of the cost.

Manufacturers such as Pelican, Petzl and many others have put theses lights in severe duty cycles and through every acid test possible.

The certifications and warranties are also spot on.

I feel it will be hard for you to compete in the the Fire Service unless you can build a better mousetrap and lower the cost substantially.

[mcaldwell]

Thanks for putting the time in on that one stephen. Pretty good comparison.


I agree that the sticker shock is a little much. We all joke about how the price of a product doubles as soon as you put "Fire/Rescue" in the name, but that price is a little over the top. Especially considering it does not claim any ULC/CSA approvals.

I have total confidence in our Pelican and Petzl products, and have been happy with the service and warranty (although it is seldom needed, which is even better).

The light might have some uses, but that price must come down.

[Riversong]

Just trying to get some feed back.

And I gave you some. Apparently you don't like it.

These lights are costly because they are handmade in Germany, and I'm sure they are way more functional than a $150 set.

Then figure out a way to mass produce them, like all other consumer products. A head lamp is a piece of equipment, not a collector's item.

And I highly doubt whether they're any more functional than the many excellent production models from Petzl, which have been the standard bearers for cavers and SAR professionals who put them to hard and demanding use.

I don't think you guys really read about the lights, I think you just looked at the price and said no way.

In fact, I spent considerable time at your website, reading your descriptions and specifications. They're impressive, but the light is simply not worth the price - not even half the price.

- Robert

[local717]

And I gave you some. Apparently you don't like it.

Seems like you are just trying to find reasons to prove me wrong.

Then figure out a way to mass produce them, like all other consumer products. A head lamp is a piece of equipment, not a collector's item.

Quality or Quanity

And I highly doubt whether they're any more functional than the many excellent production models from Petzl, which have been the standard bearers for cavers and SAR professionals who put them to hard and demanding use.

Our's are still brighter

In fact, I spent considerable time at your website, reading your descriptions and specifications. They're impressive, but the light is simply not worth the price - not even half the price.

- Robert

Sorry man, people don't have a problem buying them from our site. We sell plenty of $1000 sets all the time, and I always get great feedback after they have used them.

[nmfire]

Well congradulations. If you make thousands of dollars, why do you insist on spamming it here.

[mcaldwell]

Sorry man, people don't have a problem buying them from our site. We sell plenty of $1000 sets all the time, and I always get great feedback after they have used them.

That does not surprise me when your site states that the lights were designed for mountain bikers. These guys will not hesitate to drop $5000-7000 on a skookum DH bike, so the grand for the light is not neccesarily that big of a deal.

The fire service is a publicly funded entity however, and every penny must be fought over tooth and nail. No trust-funders here to hit up daddy for the coin.

[Berks2Montco84]

Like everyone else said, there's nothing special about this light that would warrant it costing over $500. It fits on a helmet and shines light, woo-hoo. I have an $18 Wal-Mart headlamp that I use with my SAR team and it works just fine for it's intended purpose.....

Edit: Also, this quote kind of irked me, "The use of the standard headstrap makes the Otto-X one of the most elegant and sophisticated headlamps on the market." How, exactly can a plain ol' looking headstrap do that? All headlamps have them, and most (like by Petzl and all) have those neat little designs on them that make them infinitely more interesting to look at than yours....

[swarmy]

Look buddy, you can't get mad if people on this forum don't want your light. You have to look at things from OUR side...

Even if (BIG IF) that light is worth the money, it still just provides… get this… LIGHT! I don’t know a single USAR team with an unlimited budget. There are plenty of cheaper alternatives to a $500 tool that provides…light. We owe it to our customers to spend our budget money as efficiently as possible. It would be irresponsible to use up such a large chunk of budget on one item that just provides light.

Definition: Feedback- the transmission of evaluative or corrective information about an action, event, or process to the original or controlling source; also : the information so transmitted.

You wanted feedback… you got it! I’m just not sure you liked what you heard. Just don't take it personnal.

Just a tip…try selling these to the military. If they find out your lights are handmade in Germany, they may pay $2000 a piece.