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Liability teaching ropes.

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  • #16
    Maybe I'm not understanding what you are saying, but NFPA 1670 states exactly what is required for a team to say it meets the rope rescue standard to the "Operations" level in Chapter 5.3.2.

    Or are you asking what compels your agency to follow NFPA at all?
    I used to be DCFDRescue 2. Forum changover locked me out.


    • #17
      Originally posted by Rescue 2 Training View Post
      Maybe I'm not understanding what you are saying, but NFPA 1670 states exactly what is required for a team to say it meets the rope rescue standard to the "Operations" level in Chapter 5.3.2.

      Or are you asking what compels your agency to follow NFPA at all?
      He was asking about qualifications to act as an instructor.


      • #18
        My view on what makes a person qualified to teach a subject would be 80% field experience, 20% certifications. I did not mention the ability to effectively transfer solid knowledge from their head to the students but that is obviously huge as well. I as a student never get bent out of shape if an instructor does not have a teaching cert or instructors cert as long as the information is solid and I can see they are not puking up words straight out of a book that they them selves have not mastered hands on. For you you will have to follow a standard but with that said does not mean you can't or should stay away from saying when it is better to do something from outside the scope of what is a norm. Example being teach the to the 1006 standard but if something from that (say a belay station for a practical) is best done in an outside technique not found in Fire/Rescue but found in ice climbing... like an Abalakov Anchor say.... then teach it. Just be able to back your methodology up and prove the effectiveness and safety of it for that use in that time, and that place. Think about how many companies will have "guest instructors" come teach for a drill night or weekend but are not certified instructors. They have a proven track record and solid knowledge for their area. I would take that over some schmo that took a week long instructors course at fire school, did a 30 min crap lesson, took rope 1006 Pro Board but flips burgers or sales cars for a living. I want to learn from the guy that is in the mud everyday and makes a life of it. All personal feelings but hope you can take something from it as I would be that guy in the station you would be teaching to.


        • #19
          NFPA 1006 has the job performance requirements (JPRs), that state exactly the capabilities you as a rescue technician have to be able to do by demonstrating the skill and/or knowledge. NFPA 1041 has the JPRs to be an instructor and again demonstrate the skill of teaching, modifying or creating lesson plans (depending on level) etc.

          Nothing is crystal clear, but a good and reputable instructor has these certifications and also the experience in "the mud" as Fairfield said. Certainly the NFPA standards do not make you a rescue technician or an instructor, but at least establish minimum standards and the experience takes over the rest.

          I look at teaching and the fire service like every other trade out there. Would you allow an unlicensed electrician to put a new service into your home where your family sleeps, no matter his experience? Would you allow a newly licensed electrician to do so? For me, I am looking for a balance between the 2, because the ones who fall into that category truly are dedicated to their craft, by taking the time to get their license, and building upon their experience by doing their trade.


          • #20
            I meet the standards by NFPA 1041, but I am not certified as a "technician" level rescuer regardless of possessing the knowledge base (in my opinion)

            I probably meet on paper the operations level.


            • #21
              The way it works here in California; First the person must attend classes and become certified instructor. Now if the instructor wants to be certified instructor in LARRO for example, the person must attend the LARRO class as a student and obtain his/her certification. Upon completion of the certification, the person would then have to instruct a LARRO class with a shadow instructor. The shadow instructor would sign off a task book stating the instructor has met the requirements to be an instructor in LARRO. Like I said, this is just in Ca.

              I am sure NY has its own requirements.


              • #22
                BB - I know I'm late in the game, but here are my thoughts.

                1. It sounds like you are doing In-service rope training.
                2. You are not issuing a certificate of compliance

                Therefore, you are good to go and share the information you have. I would think there is a guy in your fire house that is not a fire service instructor, yet has provided you with valuable training. If you and your department feel you have the knowledge to share, then share it.

                Vice versa, if they were asking for a NY State certificate for a ropes course, well then you obviously have to meet the requirements of the state.

                I would ensure the VFD backs the training though. Should someone get injured, YOU (and the student) want to be protected by their insurance.

                There are a lot of great instructors out there who are not associated with a state academy. Some are not even eligible to teach through a state academy because they have no fire/rescue affiliation.


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