Technical rescue scenario-how would you....

[pasobuff]

Go about removing a victim from the scaffolding on the very top of the picture? Assuming the victim is unable to help himself.

Some basic info -
Victim is tied in with a harness/safety line
Height is approximately 12-15 stories above grade - not reachable with a ladder truck.
Your main access is via the scaffold stairs seen in the lower left corner - you can get a sense of scale from the person going down the stairs.

Get the discussion going!

[coreymolinelli]

bad post earlier cant delete it

[FiremanLyman]

Some ideas;

-Put Pt. in a Ferno style basket, remove wood scafolding inline down to the roof access, lower Ferno down with litter attendent.

-Using a highline/guideline, assuming there are suitable anchors.

-Is there any roof opening at the top? Could you vertical lower the Pt. though the roof?

[nmfire]

Stokes and a helicopter.

[pasobuff]

No hole in the top to get through - anyway there are a lot of impediments inside that tower.....duct work, old electrical lines, etc.....

As far as suitable anchors - I believe so - if you look closely there are lines running down the sides- those are for the workers to tie in to I believe.....

helicoptor...hmm.....that is an idea......

How about a crane?

[Trkco1]

How about a crane?

Is this a broken leg or cardiac arrest? I'd let the situation dictate some of the tactics.

[pasobuff]

Is this a broken leg or cardiac arrest? I'd let the situation dictate some of the tactics.

Let's go with a traumatic injury - back/leg injury

[MtnRsq]

Stokes and a helicopter.

If you've got the appropriate assets available - a short haul or hoist rescue would be very doable. Potentially a quick option vs. a complex lowering.

Good pix and of short haul in Grand Teton NP:

http://www.tetonat.com/2008/11/25/dope-on-a-rope/

A hoist rescue demo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0raoTgzoNw

The effects of rotor downwash on scaffolding would be an important consideration, but a hoist or short haul from sufficient height would help. A hoist op could potentially get the subject off and into the 'copter and enroute to a trauma center very quickly.

A sloping highline would be a good option if anchors are available and it is necessary to stay off of the red roof in the picture. If I don't need to worry about the roof then a lowering right down the roof w/litter attendant(s) walking the litter down in a (very) steep slope rescue approach.

Getting the subject to the roof and/or another location where stair access would be viable would be nice to limit how much rope work was needed.

If the stairwells are narrow or difficult to navigate with a litter bound patient, I'd consider a lowering all the way to the ground. It is potentially much faster than manhandling down many flights of stairs (assuming elevators, wide/open stairwells, etc. are not available). Ability to use high angle offsets (guiding, tracking, etc.) is likely given the situation.

Assuming the above I'd look at having two systems - one for the highline piece to get the patient to the roof. I'd have another crew set-up the roof-to-ground lowering and have them ready to go by the time the patient came off the highline. I'm assuming suitable anchors for all the above and an ability to move the patient around on the roof.

Here's an option that probably exceeds the "practicality" test, but you could run a highline from the patient's building to a nearby building and using an English Reeve type set-up move the patient to a space between the two buildings and lower right to the street.

I can picture it in my head right now, 1,000s of ft of rope....

[TRT24]

why get complicated? use a stokes basket anchor off scaffolding and lower to doorway with blue tarps. the whole roof is just one big steep slope evac

[pasobuff]

@TRT.....gee - you are THINKING!!!!!....very good....one problem - that doorway with the blue tarp does NOT access the inside of the building - it is a small doorway (maybe 3' high) that accesses the inside of the tower.

The access off this section of roof is over in the left lower corner - scaffold steps - I will try to get a better picture on Monday if the weather cooperates - the stairway is not very big - it would be difficult to get a stokes around the corners without going up and over the railing.....OH - and the load rating for the scaffolding at the base of the tower is 8 people at one time, I think.

As for stringing a line to another building - this is the biggest building around - no way to do that.....the structural stability of the chimneys has not been determined, so not good for anchors unless right at the bottom.

Back to the crane idea - what about a pick with a crane, in an equipment basket - then lowered to the ground? I don't have a shot handy - but there is a 267' or so crane on site, which reach to the top of the tower (crane is actually much taller than the tower).....

If using the carne option, what are some things to consider? The crane does NOT operate at anything over 15mph winds either.....

[DCFDRescue2]

Our bread and butter rope operation in Washington DC is "flying" an injured worker out on a basket attached to the crane hook.

We make a webbing loop though the ring of our bridle large enough to go over the crane hook (padded with old fire hose) as well as place a seperate rope about 20' long with an 8 on a bight in the middle to serve as a belay line for the rescuer and victim.

The crane hooks are plenty strong and the crane operators that we have worked with have all been absolutely top notch and can put a basket down in the EXACT spot where you tell them too. Gently as can be I might add.

I'm sure there is some regulation that is supposed to prevent us from doing this, but it is a fast and safe method.

[FiremanLyman]

Given the new info, I would still be inclinded to go with (if helo option was no-go) slope evac to roof landing. New info (the stairs in the left corner of the building) would lead me to then set up a DCD on the top flight and walk the stokes down the stairs with two rescuers using assistance from a rope off the DCD on the top flight.

Unless the crane is on site already? Did not see it in the picture. But if the ladder truck will not reach, I would have the pt. in the ER before a crane tall enough could get there.

What other info are you holding out on us still?

[volff1170]

I'd think you'd need 2 crews as mentioned before. One crew to get the patient off of the scaffolding while the other set up for a high angle lower.

Couldn't the second crew wrap the peak for an anchor point? Then the high angle lower to the ledge. Put down some edge protection and lower over the side with an attendant and just lower enough to access a window on one of the upper floors. Have a crew ready to pull the basket and attendant in and then take the elevator to the ground floor.

[TRT24]

Then I would use the above mentioned method to get patient to the level of scaffolding. Carry him down one flight of scaffolding step. Set up a height advantage on the upper level of scaffold. Slide pt to outside of scaffolding and straight down.

[pasobuff]

ok...more info - assuming the wind is less than 15mph - this could be used -

If using the crane - would you try to use a man-basket or rig up a stokes to the hook?

If the wind is over 15mph, or if the opeartor deems unsafe.....I would go with rigging to get the person to the roof-scaffold level....

Oh - and another tidbit of information - if you go down the equivalant of 2 stories on the outside scaffold stairs, there IS access to the interior of the building through a doorway - OR a hoist with basket to go down the outside....unfortunately I don't have pictures of those right now.