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Silver Gear vs. Structure Gear

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  • #16
    al asad when mwss 271 was there in 05 they were hitting it with the turrets AND sending the handline men in to knock it back a bit and it burned for like 24 hours
    Yeah but that one also had other issues going for it which made it to go that long--shortage of foam, expeditionary environment and bad tactics (not by you guys so much as much as by the contractors). I won't get into particulars but the Gunny is right--no need to send in handlines--there is nothing to gain and plenty to lose. You would have done just as well with regular 'ole turnout gear, foam and large caliber hose lines.
    "When you are safe at home, you wish you were having an adventure-when you're having an adventure, you wish you were safe at home"

    --Thornton Wilder

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    • #17
      Brothers,

      Its seem there is a limited number of those who prefer silvers over structural gear. I just recieved my new set of silvers in which the instruction booklet clearly states, "Not intended for interior Firefighting". There is a reason it is call "Proximity Gear" NFPA mandates that one set of silvers is maintained for the fuel farms in case of fire. That is the only reson I see silver being needed. I'm sure any of the Oil Company Firefighter will attest to this.
      If the Crash Truck operators due what they are taught and knock down the bulk of a fire so the rescue crew can enter. You cant just stand outside and change your gear for a different operation. You need a set of gear that can do both and that is Structural Gear at this time.
      Nathan Pennington
      Cleveland Hopkins Airport ARFF
      Firefighter/Paramedic
      Zoll FireRMS/ePCR Administrator

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      • #18
        I'm not sure where you're seeing it as an NFPA mandate to provide one set of silvers for the fuel farm- Unless that's just what someone told you and that was their only reason... my understanding is that it's left up to the AHJ to make the determination of the requirement based on a hazard analysis. Any other basis of the need is determined by the primary responsibility of the service or personnel.

        If there IS actual NFPA legislation, please point it out as I work at both a fuel storage facility and a CAT 6 Aerodrome and provide both services as well.

        I'm with Gunny and judging by the ammendments being suggested to 1851 and 1500- and those suggestions I've read involve the re-wording of these different standards to be more specific about how the job is changing and, as gunny points out, a lot of the REALLY big stuff is being dealt with at standoff ranges now by bigger advanced equipment. I've also read NFPA 30 (Fuel storage) and 24 (private systems just for kicks)... I just don't see it put in black and white except as required by the AHJ or a hazard assessment.

        We've long said that the disadvantage of gear that protects us so well is that it gets us into situations that we might not be able to get out of. It causes us to get too deep into trouble... If we need proximity gear to fight the fires we're fighting, we're missing a step with bigger equipment. That heat is a warning shot- not a challenge... and it should be addressed with better strategy, tactics and bigger resources. And if none of those are already in place... well- no offense but you've already got bigger things to worry about than picking between structural gear and proximity.
        Ian "Eno" McLeod

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        • #19
          With the experience i have with silvers i hate them, once they are heat saturated it takes longer for them to cool off in my opinion. I know that Charlotte Fire Dept. uses structural gear. The only thing worse than the silvers is those ARFF boots.

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          • #20
            I agree the boots are the most uncomfortable boots I've ever worn. Globe has come out with an ARFF boot made of Leather that has all the protection of the rubber but 10xs more comfortable. Cost alot. I'm hoping that Globe at FDIC this year will have an set to try on.
            Nathan Pennington
            Cleveland Hopkins Airport ARFF
            Firefighter/Paramedic
            Zoll FireRMS/ePCR Administrator

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            • #21
              Our Policy.....

              We primarily protect light/medium framed rotary aircraft, but we use primarily Structure Gear. At Station 3, which protects Military and Civilian Aircraft we do have the Proximity Suits issued to us but they stay in a closet unless some Heavy Cargo Planes come-in then we pull them out and set them by the ARFF and Water Tender. Our Crash Stations provide both services so the Structure Gear works best for our Operations.

              I do agree, once the get the ARFF Boots on, it's like walking on pillows. Have fun getting them off though. When I first got hired at my current Career Department, I wore ARFF Boots with Structure Gear. I almost cried when they had me switch back to Turnout Boots. LOL.

              Gunny V, you do make some very valid points especially with the Manpower issue. I never understood how an ARFF with either (1) or (2) personnel is expected to be able to perform everything needed for an Aircraft Rescue. I know that we cover multiple Units, but (1) person (to bring the number up to 3) more per Unit would make more sense to me. It will be interesting to see if anybody challenges the manpower using the "2 In, 2 Out" Regulation. Just a thought.....

              Here's another thought, ever notice how the DOD training disks show ARFF/AF FFs wearing Proximity Gear while responding to a simulated FS which would require an Interior Attack, yet the Manufacturer says the gear is not intended for that use?
              Last edited by mikeyboy; 12-31-2010, 06:12 PM.
              "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

              Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

              Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Firemedic070 View Post
                I agree the boots are the most uncomfortable boots I've ever worn. Globe has come out with an ARFF boot made of Leather that has all the protection of the rubber but 10xs more comfortable. Cost alot. I'm hoping that Globe at FDIC this year will have an set to try on.
                I am going to have to investigate that because I hate wearing my ARFF boots. Running the tapes after a barrier engagement really sucks in them.

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                • #23
                  As an index E dept we switched to all structual gear about 6 years ago. As has already been stated the need for prox gear is pretty nill these days. If you have a large fuel fire, you should be in the crash truck.

                  And after reading the current studies out there we are now switching over to leather boots as well.

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