Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Harry......... Its Okay

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Harry......... Its Okay

    Okay. Dr. Harry Carter. You have proven that you were a good commander. The fact that you mention it in every article that you write is a testament to your love affair with Dr. Harry Carter. "Death by Heroism" made several good points but as usual you have to mention your name along with some of the greats of the fire service, as if you can not get respect by virtue of just writing an informative article. Your good friends, Leo Stapleton, Vince Dunn and John Norman are all well known for their writing as well as their contribution to the fire service. I have yet to read one Vince Dunn article where he has to knock a department, or build up his reputation by citing how many fires he has gone to, to make a point. Feel free to mention Boston..But did you have to be a smart a-- when you said "you were not a jake". However you did come from Newark, according to you one of the most aggressive departments there is.......then you knocked the leadership of that department...The bottom line is that you are only interested in seeing your name among the stars. And you mention JFK....And you mention Vince Dunn. Sir, I have met Vince Dunn, and you are no Vince Dunn. Enough guys at N'wark have talked about you and the myth you have created. You are a sad representation of a miffed employee with access to a major magazine. Have a good retirement. Oh and we would love to see you giving a talk to the Jakes in Boston. See ya in the back bay, baby. Bastid!

    ------------------
    "No matter what rank I have attained, I am, at heart, a Firefighter First"

  • #2
    FireFJayT,
    By reading your post, it seems as though you have read more than one of Mr. Carter's articles correct?
    My fellow firefighter...you seem to be missing the true message of Mr. Carter's work. Chief Dunn has chosen to share his knowledge of tactics and building construction in order to help educate the fire service and prevent firefighter deaths.

    Mr. Carter has the very same goals as Chief Dunn, but chooses to also save another life.....the life of the American Fire
    Service!
    Harry continues to be the leader in telling it like it is, and being our watchdog. Who else brings us important information from around the country about the decisions made by poor leadership from fire Chief's to Mayors? We could all learn a great deal from what our fellow firefighters around the country are experiencing, and Harry brings it right to us, straight from the hip.
    You have met Chief Dunn, but have you met Harry Carter ? Based on your post, I would say not.
    So I guess with all of your experience, all fire departments are run correctly, never screwing people over for promotions, never cutting staffing, always providing proper training and equipment, and Chief's never put their position in City Hall before their firefighters right?
    I think you know the answer to that pal!
    So when these and other tragic mistakes are made by departments or Fire Chief's around the country, I expect Harry to tell us, just as I expect Vinny Dunn to tell us about new trends in building construction.
    Ever been to Newark? Ever talk to their guy's? Ever ask them about their leadership from the Mayor to the Chief ? They can say all they want about Harry, but do they give their leadership good marks? Stop by a firehouse in Newark and ask them. Oh, by the way, make sure it's a house that has firefighters in it, sometimes they are closed on a rotational basis!

    If you really read what Harry writes about, you will see that there is a message. The man is the first to give credit when it is due, and speaks highly of his troops and the officers he worked with during his career.
    I guess Harry is a lot lot the NY Yankees.....ya either love him or ya hate him. But even if you hate the Yankees, a true baseball fan would have to admit....they sure got some dam good pitching.
    JayT, are you a true firefighter?
    Because Harry Carter sure has a dam good message.

    Comment


    • #3
      BC White,

      I do know Harry Carter, both from Newark and Adelphia in Jersey. I have spoken with many firefighters in Newark and that was the basis of my post. As far as experience I don't care to compare but this "Jake" has been around some true professionals! Harry is a decent guy and he knows how to write. The unfortunate part is that he dupes little fishes in small ponds into believing Harry is a genius. I suggest you go to Newark, email me, I will meet you there and I will show you around and have you talk to a few guys who are salt of the earth brothers. Oh and you know vince Dunn too! Great, see how he can relate a message by the same medium as Harry and do it without bragging about his own bloated self image. Come in from the sticks and join the real world. Don't just read about it in magazines. Stay safe BC........

      Comment


      • #4
        Well JayT my brother, I have been to Newark, quite a few times actually. For the last 8 years or so I have made it a point to head back east to spend a shift (tour) with one of the busiest companies in NFD, then head over to Brooklyn or the Bronx for another shift with some other busy companies.
        Wait a minute, that would then mean I had come in from the sticks, unless of course the talanted companies I have spent time with were not from the real world.
        I would say they were.
        An experienced firefighter like yourself would call my trips to the east "buffing", but I would tend to call it "expanding my horizons beyond magazines".
        You would be surprised my friend, for there are some fine firefighters in the "sticks", for they are not all in the cities.

        Did some of the folks at NFD have the same feelings as you about Harry, sure...there were a few. But I also spoke with some who felt he tried to make some positive changes there, and if he told a story or two, so what, his experience speaks for itself.
        It appears that you are allowing a few "war stories" cloud what he speaks or writes about.
        If this man wants to continue to bring serious issues in the fire service to the attention of firefighters around the country, then who cares about some of his stories. The fire service needs facts, and he gives them to us.
        Seems to me that experience and knowledge is handed down in any department, no matter the size.

        I learned a long time ago, that no matter what you do or say, you will never please everyone. The important thing is that if you work hard, continue to learn, and share your experience and knowledge, others will benefit.

        I'm sure we will agree to disagree here, but that's fine. The bottom line is that Harry Carter has the balls to tell it like it is, from Iowa to NJ. And if his approach offends some, well that's life. He has helped out far more folks than he has upset with his pitching style.
        "Beware of small ponds, they tend to be very deep, and bare large, intelligent fish."
        May you too be safe Jake.

        Comment


        • #5
          My friend you called it! You spend a tour with a busy company and you think you know them. I know these guys...period. You are a buff. It shows plainly. Thats okay because I love buffs. Harry is a bull shi* artist. You wouldn't know because you are caught in the rags that you read. But thats okay. He is impressive to the easily impressed and you have a hero. May the road rise up to meet you and may whatever divine authority you believe in (Maybe Harry Carter?) let you see the error of your ways. Oh and by the way.......your a jake too!

          [This message has been edited by FireFJayT (edited October 28, 2000).]

          Comment


          • #6
            I don't take sides in the discussion of what Dr. Carter brings to the table in this discussion. But I think that an idea or opinion is worth consideration no matter who puts it forth. How many times have you seen an idea get killed, because it didn't come from the "right" source? There is a saying that we owe it to ourselves to be "intellectually honest" with each other. If the shoe fits or is close let's wear it, if it feels uncomfortable, well let's change (it). Personally I in my younger days, would have to wear this one for a while. And though I don't know what is in my some of my 'brother's" minds, some have done things also, that we couldn't contribute to anything but putting brawn over brains. I don't mean good hard hitting aggressive firefighting, I mean getting hurt (or close) in condemned houses that were already scheduled for demolition. Guys (and gals) lets learn from our well paid for mistakes. It it very depressing to go to the NFA and have the flag at half staff all the time. I am for fewer firefighter deaths. If that means taking less risks and making better decisions, that is OK by me.

            Comment


            • #7
              For those of you who think that Harry Carter "tells it like it is" and is such as asset to the fire service - take a hard look.
              Harry Carter is very good at one thing - marketing himself. He doesn't "tell it like it is", he tells you what you want to hear. He is a sensational journalist who covers a story very poorly at that. I once read his articles for information, I only read them now if I want a laugh.
              Even looking beyond the self-promotion in each and every article. First, he changes his stories all the time - I never know what his position will be. When the federal Fire Bill first came out, he said that the funds should only be for very needy situations, then after he realized that position wasn't what the fire service wanted to hear, now he's for all kinds of federal funding for the fire service.
              Next, is the hypocrisy. Remember when the DCFD was having staffing issues regarding the 5th man on the trucks, acting chief resigns. Harry writes all derogatory comments about the next batt chief to step in, how he's bowing to the politicians, etc., has no integrity, etc. Harry Carter spent 30 years or so working in Newark, NJ - corruption in government, massive lack of funding of FD, etc. Harry stayed there 30 years - Harry says that everybody else has to walk away, don't cave in to the politicians, resign, blah, blah, blah and he probably put up with more bs than probably most firefighters in the entire country, but he slams a guy (who he doesn't even know a clue about)because the guy stepped in when the city is only funding 4 man trucks - you got to be kidding me.
              And Worcester. I followed Worcester very close. Harry reads one or two newspaper articles and again totally slams the city manager for FD funding after the cold storage fire. Why? Because that is exactly what the fire service wants to hear - big bad politicians screwing the fire service again. Harry's totally slamming the city manager, his integrity, etc. Harry doesn't even bother to really understand the issues. He reads one newspaper article and starts blasting people. It wasn't the city manager who didn't buy radios or thermal imagers in Worcester, it was the Fire Chief. Radios were 25th on his budget list and I don't even think imagers was even on his list. He's buying more trucks and Expeditions for the officers. Harry thinks that fire fighters are getting killed because nobody provides us enough resources.

              Like I said in the beginning - look long and hard at what Harry comes up with and you really better take a look if you think he's out there telling it like it is and looking out for the fire service.

              If you want to really here it like it is, I'll give you a couple realities that your unlikely to hear from Harry-
              The first one regards your safety. NO ONE is coming to rescue you, NO ONE is going to shower you with unlimited resources, if you think you aren't getting enough resources now - wait until this greatest economic expansion cycles down. We lost 6 firefighters is Worcester - the PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT showed up, there was national press coverage, Esquire articles, we're going to be on 48 hrs. - WHERE IS ALL THE FEDERAL FUNDING? If the fire service is just going to continue to blame everyone else for our line of duty deaths and wait for the endless funding - we will continue to get killed. And I'll tell you one more reality that affects your safety - if people were so concerned about fires and fire safety and were willing to spend a lot of money on it, they would spend it on building code compliance/construction, fire sprinklers, detection/alarm systems, inspections, fire code enforcment,etc. Back to the 1800's industrial plants that wanted to ensure fire safety put in sprinklers and fire pumps and control hot work, etc. They haven't relied on manual suppression for 150 years. The fire service forgets, when we go to major fire like the Worcester cold storage fire - the entire fire safety/protection chain has fallen apart. If the bldg owner isn't going to spend money on maintaining sprinklers, you think he is going spend it on the fire service?

              The other reality I'll tell you is that we can complain about local politicians or go begging to the Feds, but if we want better funding, if we want more fiscal respect, you got to go to the PEOPLE. We are a democracy, and if we convince the PEOPLE we need more funds, you can bet that when the PEOPLE make their voices heard to the local, state, and federal politicians, there won't be a single politicians that won't follow the voice of the people.
              You won't hear this from Harry Carter.

              Comment


              • #8
                Harry
                I stumble onto your little part of the world by chance, I'm glad i did. You write about my dept like you know something about my Dept. I'm here to tell you, you do not have the first clue about the BFD. You tell the world how we are going backwards. Tell us something, has a test ever been done to the effects on the human body with bunker gear? It seems funny to me how one dept issuse bunkergear and the whole fire service jumps on the band wagon. No one really tested the gear.

                I am A Boston JAKE! One of a proud few. Had you done your home work, you would have looked at our stats before bunker gear, 4% burns before bunkers, 4% with bunkers. Did you look into that? I really do not care how many tin ceillings you pounded, or how many rivers you had flowing thru your hose. Before you comment on the Best Fire dept in the land, get your facts!! By the way, you state you have 30 years on Newark? You stated you started in 1973, you had 27 years. You are quickly losing your credibility with me.

                A true Boston Jake


                ------------------
                ** The opionions are mine and mine alone, they are not that of my dept or the local**

                Comment


                • #9
                  After reading the posted messages about the 48Hours Heroes story you can see that what Harry is saying. Too many of us can't wait to wallow in the glory of death. It is always best if the death is someone else however. While what we do is probably still the most dangerous profession, there still are many many electricians who die in thje line of duty. i have never seen a bagpipe funeral for an electrician
                  It is right that we honor our dead but we need to be careful that the dead hero does not define our existance.

                  Comment

                  300x600 Ad Unit (In-View)

                  Collapse

                  Upper 300x250

                  Collapse

                  Taboola

                  Collapse

                  Leader

                  Collapse
                  Working...
                  X