Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Pros vs Cons of being union

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Pros vs Cons of being union

    Hello all,

    First off I currently work at a municipal owned ambulance service full time. We employee both full time and part time staff. A few co-workers want to go union with the IAFF. What are the pros and cons of having a union. Right now we are currently the highest paid EMS service in the county and one of my fears is that once we go union we are going to lose wages. Also what can the union do for the part time employees? and lastly I'm a P.O.C. for the fire department which is all POC other than the chief and fire inspector, with us going to IAFF will I have to give up my position as a firefighter. With the ambulance service I am one of the full time staff and its strictly EMS no firefighting. Thanks

  • #2
    Originally posted by jhecht1 View Post
    with us going to IAFF will I have to give up my position as a firefighter
    Not necessarily. It depends on whether or not there are any conflicts of interest between your P.O.C. department and any IAFF departments in its response area.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
    sigpic
    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
      Not necessarily. It depends on whether or not there are any conflicts of interest between your P.O.C. department and any IAFF departments in its response area.
      So con number one. You have to let the union make personal decisions for you or else you will be considered a traitor.

      I could go on.

      I have no use for the IAFF and unions in general.
      Train to fight the fires you fight.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
        So con number one. You have to let the union make personal decisions for you or else you will be considered a traitor.

        I could go on.

        I have no use for the IAFF and unions in general.


        They have no use for yard firefighters or scabs either!
        Stay Safe and Well Out There....

        Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
          They have no use for yard firefighters or scabs either!
          scabs no.

          yard firefighters...if they pay their dues...they have use for them.
          "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bones42 View Post
            yard firefighters...if they pay their dues...they have use for them.
            The International might but the Local sure as he|| won't.
            "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
            sigpic
            The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

            Comment


            • #7
              The purpose of a union is to protect employees from the employer abusing their pay, benefits, hours, and conditions.

              If you're current pay, hours, benefits, and conditions are not being abused, which it sounds like the case, then you have no reason to go union. And if you do go union, you can expect a net loss in pay since you will be paying the union (for nothing). You shouldn't be going union because some blow hards blindly say "we need a union". I would challenge them to explain what that need is and why first.

              Unions have their place. There are lots of places where without a union, the municipality would without a doubt abuse their pay, benefits, hours, and conditions. As someone pointed out in another thread, you're employed by politicians and there are no honest caring ones out there. But there are plenty of places that get along happy and glad without a union and do not need one. You may be one of those places. You may not.

              And as with every union, their leadership's agenda and personal gain is first and foremost before they actually give a crap about their members. Always remeber that.
              Last edited by nmfire; 02-17-2011, 02:13 PM.
              Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                So con number one. You have to let the union make personal decisions for you or else you will be considered a traitor.
                Actually, that's not really the case, at least not with the IAFF.

                At the local level, "the Union" IS the employees, not someone from outside the department. The Union Officers ARE bargaining unit employees. The Union is also very much a "representative democracy" in its operation - basically the same as most governments in the US.

                The Union Officers are elected by the membership. The Union Officers are empowered to act on behalf of the membership regarding certain matters. Many issues, specifically the ratification of collective bargaining agreements, are decided by majority vote of the entire membership of the Local. Constitution and By-law (of the Union) matters typically require a super-majority of the membership for creation, modification or repeal.

                For the most part the IAFF (at the top level) and the State Association don't deal with local level issues unless requested to help by that particular Local Union. Their focus otherwise is typically on political, legislative or other matters of interest or impact on their entire membership. Like at the local level, the election of officers (who are IAFF members, not "hired guns") and governing document matters are done by the membership - via elected delegates of each Local at the Bi-annual Conventions.


                Nobody is considered to be a traitor unless they commit an act of treason against the Union.

                I could go on.
                Please do. I'm curious as to what other ignorant views you have on my Union.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by nmfire View Post
                  And as with every union, their leadership's agenda and personal gain is first and foremost before they actually give a crap about their members. Always remeber that.
                  Always remember that you should be careful painting with broad stokes.

                  I can tell you without a doubt, that your claim is wrong. I am an Executive level officer in my Local and can say without hesitation that the welfare of the membership is first and foremost for us. Some may disagree with our agenda, but it is not one of personal gain, rather it is about what we feel will be the most beneficial overall to the membership we represent.

                  I personally know the leadership of our State Association and can say the same about them.

                  I don't personally know the leadership of the IAFF itself, but I absolutely don't feel like the membership plays second fiddle to their personal gains.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Unions

                    Having been on both sides....(Management now) I can see the need for a Union. The problem I have now is that the Union thinks it can stick its nose in where they have no business being. They should concern themselves with the pay, benefits and working conditions and quit worrying about other items out of their control. They can if you let them be a bother......the key is to work together and make things pleasant.
                    Respectfully,
                    Jay Dudley
                    Retired Fire
                    Background Investigator
                    IACOJ-Member
                    Lifetime Member CSFA
                    IAFF Alumni Member

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JayDudley View Post
                      Having been on both sides....(Management now) I can see the need for a Union. The problem I have now is that the Union thinks it can stick its nose in where they have no business being. They should concern themselves with the pay, benefits and working conditions and quit worrying about other items out of their control. They can if you let them be a bother......the key is to work together and make things pleasant.
                      What would those other items be in your opinion?

                      (Not arguing, just curious.)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Union

                        They seem paranoid to me. They seem to think every time someone is talking to another member i.e. Commissioner and Chief....Chief and Secretary.......Commissioner and Captain the word is they think there's a Union infraction .
                        Respectfully,
                        Jay Dudley
                        Retired Fire
                        Background Investigator
                        IACOJ-Member
                        Lifetime Member CSFA
                        IAFF Alumni Member

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Is that paranoia, or just inexperience?

                          How long has there been a Local in place in your district? They just might be too new at being Local officers to know what is cause for worry and what is just part of doing the business of the district. Getting in touch with the leadership of a more established Local in the area could help them figure it out.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by FireMedic049 View Post
                            ...
                            I can tell you without a doubt, that your claim is wrong. I am an Executive level officer in my Local and can say without hesitation that the welfare of the membership is first and foremost for us. Some may disagree with our agenda, but it is not one of personal gain, rather it is about what we feel will be the most beneficial overall to the membership we represent...
                            You do realize how conradictory this sounds?

                            The part of WE feel will be best...we represent.

                            That sure sounds like a leadership agenda to me.

                            Isn't it up to the membership to decide what is best for them? Does the membership get to offer suggestions or do they just get to vote on the leaderships recommendation?


                            No, I am not in a union. But I do know the one I deal with everyday only gets to vote yes/no on what their leadership proposes. And yes, they elect that leadership, once a year. Just curious if that is normal or a rare occurrence.
                            "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Union

                              The Local is great don't get me wrong. In the times we needed them to step up and help the District they did....Big Time. If I was a firefighter and worked for the District they would be the one I'd join. They just have this idea that they can control more than what they do. Simple as that......
                              Respectfully,
                              Jay Dudley
                              Retired Fire
                              Background Investigator
                              IACOJ-Member
                              Lifetime Member CSFA
                              IAFF Alumni Member

                              Comment

                              300x600 Ad Unit (In-View)

                              Collapse

                              Upper 300x250

                              Collapse

                              Taboola

                              Collapse

                              Leader

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X