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  • 07 vehicle question

    We are kicking around the idea of applying for a quint for 2007. Our fire district is 104 square miles with a population of 16,000, it is a mix of rural, industrial and 100+ residential subdivisions. 2 questions - 1) what is the building height that the AFG is looking for? 2) - we have no aerial apparatus and have approximately 100 buildings (homes, industrial, agricultural) over 3 stories tall and currently rely on a neighboring department for an aerial.

    We also would like to trade in a 2002 pumper with an approximate value of 150,000 so the actual cost we would apply for would be signicantly lower than the 550 grand it takes to buy a quint.

    Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

  • #2
    No aerial now, correct?

    Current age of apparatus?

    Buildings over 4 stories tall?

    Call volume?

    Comment


    • #3
      No aerial apparatus.

      1997 Pumper, 2002 Pumper (we want to trade this), 2005 Pumper/Tanker (2005 AFG Award).

      Buildings over 4 stories - at least 50

      Call Volume - 350 w/ no EMS First response calls, we average 20-25 working fires per year.

      Comment


      • #4
        Others may disagree, but I would say you have little chance of funding for numerous reasons.

        Is the justification there? (50 buildings, wow!) Sure.

        Is the financial need there? You have no apparatus more than 10 years old, AND you were awarded for a vehicle already. In some of these seminars, we've seen narratives from companies operating 1950's vintage apparatus first due still.

        As you may have seen here, there has been discussion about apparatus needs with the new program guidelines.

        If you were a firefighter on the peer review panel, after reading a narrative for that company who needs to replace the 1974 Engine and then read that you want a second vehicle from AFG - who are you going to award?

        That's my opinion...but I've seen crazy'er stuff awarded.

        Comment


        • #5
          Our 2005 award replaced a 1977 grain truck/tanker, so I feel for other departments. We need an aerial and have a bargaining chip with the 2002 trade-in (i have already talked to the manufacture, they want it).

          With the huge price tag for a ladder and our mediocre size budget ($700,000 range) it would be difficult for us to afford one without help. Our county has a population of 75,000 and ther is ONE aerial platform in the entire county so mutual aid will definately be a consideration.

          Just asking the questions before i put the sweat and tears into the app........

          Comment


          • #6
            Well, there is some cost benefit.

            The bottom line is that apparatus odds are gonna get tougher this year with "2-fers" applying and aerials aren't an easy game.

            Comment


            • #7
              Given that you can do TWO apps this year, the cost to find out is the sweat and tears. I agree with Sly that it's long odds. But...applying for the truck doesn't keep you from applying for equipment this year. Nothing to lose but the energy and agony.

              earl (i'd do it. i wouldn't hold my breath, but i'd do it)

              Comment


              • #8
                earl makes a good point that I didn't put down, but he covered it. I was simply pointing out that it's gonna be tough for an award, but at least you don't burn your only application this year.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks guys...I understand that getting awarded 2 vehicles is a long shot but they wouldn't have opened up vehicles for 2nd awards if they didn't see a need, right??

                  Good Luck.....

                  Can we apply for WARMER WEATHER???? Illinois is changing its name to Alaska Junior.....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Shoot, +25 is feeling warm!! We had 7 straight days with sub zero lows and highs in single digits.

                    Hey Steelman, we are hosting Forum guru Kurt Bradley of Chief Grants here in LaPorte, IN on March 2-3 for his grants workshop. e-mail me at [email protected] if you want info.

                    Doing the extra app is a job, but it may be worth it. Good luck.

                    earl

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SLY4420 View Post
                      Others may disagree, but I would say you have little chance of funding for numerous reasons.

                      Is the justification there? (50 buildings, wow!) Sure.

                      Is the financial need there? You have no apparatus more than 10 years old, AND you were awarded for a vehicle already. In some of these seminars, we've seen narratives from companies operating 1950's vintage apparatus first due still.

                      As you may have seen here, there has been discussion about apparatus needs with the new program guidelines.

                      If you were a firefighter on the peer review panel, after reading a narrative for that company who needs to replace the 1974 Engine and then read that you want a second vehicle from AFG - who are you going to award?

                      That's my opinion...but I've seen crazy'er stuff awarded.

                      John you are right on the money here. I would rate it at "zero" chance for funding but then, I have been wrong before. In my book, if the application has very little chance of being funded, I'm not going to do the work and waste the time and effort!
                      Kurt Bradley
                      Fire/EMS/EMA Grant Consultant
                      " Never Trade Skill for Luck"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My department was awarded in 2002 for a $480,000 Quint with simmilar demographics, except for building height (we're mostly residential). I think you'd have a shot in that area, the only thing hurting you would be that you're a second time vehicle award. But I am no grants expert, so who knows!

                        -Nick

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The only computer stat dealing with aerial needs is the 4 story building answer, so with 50 you're well ahead of a lot of people asking for aerial devices.

                          I don't see you gaining any favor with having a 2005 award for a truck and wanting to sell a 2002. Doesn't exactly scream finanicial need with having 1 replaced on your own and another via AFG.

                          Aerials also require a significant paid personnel presence. And by the numbers you have a better chance of getting $1 back from a scratch off than getting over $700K for a truck. Plus some of the truck saavy folks will realize that you could make a few years worth of payments on that truck just by selling the 2002. Need might be there, but relatively speaking you'd be behind a long line of folks with greater needs.
                          Brian P. Vickers
                          www.vickersconsultingservices.com
                          Emergency Services Consulting
                          Westlake VFD - Houston, TX
                          Proud Member IACOJ - Redneck Division

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BC79er View Post

                            I don't see you gaining any favor with having a 2005 award for a truck and wanting to sell a 2002. Doesn't exactly scream finanicial need with having 1 replaced on your own and another via AFG.
                            What would you say to this scenerio:
                            Awarded a pumper in 05. Want to replace a death trap of a tanker this year. Since it is not a pumper, do they still see it as another truck, and put a bad taste in mouth? My argument is major safety hazard to firefighters and public. Also rural, and need as much water as possible in quick manner.
                            Thoughts?
                            BAClair

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I don't think you'd be rated as high as someone that hasn't gotten a truck yet, but as long as you're applying for a 'real' tanker (1800+ gallons IMHO) I don't see any real issue with it. Everyone in a rural area needs a solid pumper, brush, and tanker.
                              Brian P. Vickers
                              www.vickersconsultingservices.com
                              Emergency Services Consulting
                              Westlake VFD - Houston, TX
                              Proud Member IACOJ - Redneck Division

                              Comment

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