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What is considered a "Brush/Attack"

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  • #16
    Cordova & bigkingfun1 narratives have been sent.

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    • #17
      One Bugle As I said in our original post the AFG app we filed in 06 for a brush truck was in my opinion and the opinion of several others including a professional healthcare grant writer "A KILLER grant App" We included all of the above plus the economic justification and the closing of a naval air station in the town next to us amounting to job loss and a downturn in real estate property values. We really felt that this app was a 90% bet. DJ 'd from the computer.
      We did have a grant in 03 for a compressor and cascade system plus 4 packs for our new heavy rescue /command vehicle that we funded by ourselves. DJ'd in 04 for a emergency generator for station and community building, so we went out & begged borrowed & bean suppered to pay for that project. Not meaning to complain just trying to make sense of a program that only gets more confusing as time goes by.

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      • #18
        several others including a professional healthcare grant writer
        Don't forget, apples and oranges here. Foundation based and other federal grants are in a completely different format than AFG so it takes some new and different thinking to get an AFG to happen. AFG is all about assessments first, then narrative. So even if they bullet-proofed the narrative for you if it wasn't the right project for the right department under the right conditions then Big Blue takes them out. Which is how I've ended up training quite a few municipal and non-profit grant writers in the ways of AFG. And several have returned the favor with showing me the other types. Everyone can always learn something.
        Brian P. Vickers
        www.vickersconsultingservices.com
        Emergency Services Consulting
        Westlake VFD - Houston, TX
        Proud Member IACOJ - Redneck Division

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        • #19
          Sorry, missed that one line about the DJ in the original post. As Brian pointed out if you can't get past the computer, no one reads the narrative. It could be the project doesn't jive with the statistics in the application, but you could have made mistakes and not realize it. Some departments make the same mistakes year in, year out because they don't know its wrong.

          A local department was getting DJ'd year after year. At one point a grant writer was hired, they along with some one else told them it was a winning grant. Guess what the big DJ. The Chief the following year (less than a week before the deadline) asked if I would look at the application (still going for SCBA & cascade). Within 5 minutes of scanning the application 4 red flags popped out. 3 out of 4 were wrong including under reporting personnel costs by over 100%. The 4th was a guess, but was correct when verified. The narrative was basically a shambles. Provided him with ideas for improvement. They were DJ'd late rounds. This year, awarded in the early rounds.

          My point is have someone outside the department (that you know & trust) that has some knowledge of the department make up etc. & have them take a glance at the info to see if anything unusual pops up.

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          • #20
            I understand what you are saying Brian. We have done our needs and risk assessments and this is the most pressing piece of large capital equipment expenditure at this time. Next on the list is replacing an ambulance and after that a new tank truck. In the last ten years we have replaced two 60's engines and added a heavy rescue to our service. All of these have been financed through fund raising and various loans. We are not poor in inventory just short on cash reserves at this time to allow us to fully fund this project.

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            • #21
              Thanks one bugle : we did exactly that . Had our app read over by a chief officer from a nearby career dept. that has 30+ years experience. His only comment was that we didn't ask for enough money for mounted equipment to add on to the truck. We thought that keeping the cost down on accessories which we could fund in-house would make the app more winnable. Back to square 1 for 2007.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by islandfire03 View Post
                In the last ten years we have replaced two 60's engines and added a heavy rescue to our service. .
                Without knowing a lot about your department and IMHO, this statement right here is what killed you guy. According to this, three of your trucks are 10 years of age or newer; therefore the average age of your fleet is way to new for them to prioritize a truck as being a priority for you, when they still have departments out here applying that have an average fleet age of 30+ years.
                Kurt Bradley
                Fire/EMS/EMA Grant Consultant
                " Never Trade Skill for Luck"

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                • #23
                  Average Fleet Age or Age of vehicle requesting replacement

                  This got me thinking, in our fleet we have a 1996 pumper, a 2003 light rescue, a 2004 AFG tanker and a 1992 pickup. We are considering going for either a skid mount pump for the pickup as equipment or going for a whole brush truck as a vehicle since the chassis has 100K+ miles and the rear body is rusted and beat to death. We currently have no brush/quick attack vehicle of any age or type. Do you think the other trucks being <10 y.o. would computer DJ us under vehicles even if we have NO brush truck of any age? This seems like it would not be how DHS would rank need, I would have guessed it would use the avergae age of vehicles in the class you are applying for. We are similar fleet to islandfire 03 who has a 25 y.o. brush truck in the class being requested but everything else is newer. We have nothing in brush, but everything else is newer.

                  I understand the low odds as a vehicle, but, if we go as equipment can we ask for money to mount the pump and refurb or build a new rear body to make the current truck an NFPA 1906 compliant brush truck or just money for the skid mount pump unit?

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                  • #24
                    Quote By KTB"Without knowing a lot about your department and IMHO, this statement right here is what killed you guy. According to this, three of your trucks are 10 years of age or newer; therefore the average age of your fleet is way to new for them to prioritize a truck as being a priority for you, when they still have departments out here applying that have an average fleet age of 30+ years.
                    Thanks for your input Kurt! every little bit helps us novices understand the program
                    I misspoke slightly checked our veh.list today: our fleet consist of
                    1982 1 ton 250/250 4 whl. drive mini pumper /brush truck 2 FF
                    1985 1400 gal tanker with 300 gpm PTO pump 2 FF
                    1991 1000/1000 ford pumper 2 FF
                    1995 Medtech ambulance
                    2000 1000/1000 CAFS engine 2 FF replaced a 1958 750/750 ford pumper
                    2003 Heavy rescue /Mobile cascade system /light & power unit/cold water & ocean rescue /command veh. /rehab truck, 4 FF in body + driver & officer in cab.

                    We built the rescue truck to carry all the extrication tools and cold water rescue gear that was formerly mounted on the brush truck in order to improve the safety of operating the mini which was extremely over loaded and unsafe to drive with the water tank full.

                    All of our apparatus are built on commercial cab chassis with very few bells or whistles just functionality for our rural location. I guess what I'm reading is because we have been fiscally responsible and busted our humps fund raising to try and maintain up to date equipment that we shouldn't waste our time applying for AFG !
                    Last edited by islandfire03; 02-15-2007, 06:49 PM. Reason: spelling correction

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                    • #25
                      What they look at for vehicle ages is what did you buy compared to what you're applying for. So you bought a heavy rescue/cascade instead of something smaller like a light rescue that cost much less and also buying a new brush truck. So to an extent our decisions about what we do with our own money make a difference. I'm not questioning why you did it, makes sense on what you did.

                      But with a computer denial your stats aren't pointing to a brush truck as a large need. Tanker might be a better chance to beat the computer.
                      Brian P. Vickers
                      www.vickersconsultingservices.com
                      Emergency Services Consulting
                      Westlake VFD - Houston, TX
                      Proud Member IACOJ - Redneck Division

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                      • #26
                        And still your average age only went to 14 yoa guy. You guys did what DHS expects everyone to do so don;t belittle yourself for using sound fiscal management. YOu just need to adjust priorities is all.
                        Kurt Bradley
                        Fire/EMS/EMA Grant Consultant
                        " Never Trade Skill for Luck"

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                        • #27
                          We built our rescue on a brand new 2000 leftover GMC 7500 cabover chassis in 2003 that we purchased for less than we could buy a F450 chassis. once we had this large & long chassis with HD drivetrain we spent a lot of time to maximize the space and had a body built for us by a local builder. we decided to mount the cascade system on it to make it portable hence available to all the surrounding towns that like us were hauling empties 30 miles rt to fill. We were also able to make the truck fit into all of the required mission parameters we needed , but never had before. Instead of small portable generators we now could power proper and safe scene lighting, we could store cold water & ice rescue suits hanging instead of rolled up in stuff bags strapped on top of the hose bed, All extrication tools are now on one engine , on roll out trays instead of piled into every available space on different trucks. There are so many operational & safety benefits that were accomplished by building this truck to say nothing of how inexpensive we managed to build it for. We might be rural but we're not bumpkins

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                          • #28
                            I wasn't disagreeing with the need by any means, it was a needed thing to do and y'all did it. By this post in a more cost-effective manner than most.

                            But that's what the computer can't see when it's looking at 2003 Rescue Truck. Step 1 of any app is figuring out if you can beat Big Blue by knowing what is against you, Step 2 is making sure the Reviewers don't think it was a fluke by knocking them over the head with the answers to all of the questions they didn't even know they were going to ask. Now you know why it's fun?
                            Brian P. Vickers
                            www.vickersconsultingservices.com
                            Emergency Services Consulting
                            Westlake VFD - Houston, TX
                            Proud Member IACOJ - Redneck Division

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                            • #29
                              Sounds like you used your abilities to provide what your department needed with the available resources. Excellent use of time and effort in my opinion. We have the same concept going, got lucky and had a chassis donated to us for a heavy rescue, now just waiting on the bed and to equip it. With the cascade did you allow for a fill station or what kind of setup do you have there? We are probably gonna mount a 4 bottle cascade on the truck and hopefully a mobile fill station. This truck will be the only heavy rescue in our region and has long been needed. You currently get a couple of light rescue trucks instead of having one truck to carry it all.

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                              • #30
                                Oh if only Kurt and Brian could figure out all the equations on this computer scoring, just think of all the friends they would have then. Whats the next rank up from GURU?

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