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Vehicle Refurbishment?

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  • Engine305
    replied
    Arrow

    The Javelin was a rear engine, 6 or 8V 92 Detroit engine; and had front wheel drive with a GKN axle, along with single tires all around. According to what I had heard, a lot of them were glider kitted into Pierce Arrow chassis. In New Jersey there are only 2 Javelins, one in Somerset County and one in my original fire company. It is very quiet in the cab except for the axle noise, but can be a little skittish in the snow, having the water tank right in the center of the truck. Sorry, I get carried away with history sometimes......
    lol

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  • islandfire03
    replied
    the reason for the 75.000 price tag is because no matter what refurb was done it's still a much older vehicle chassis underneath the 2000 refurb part. I can't understand why it was retitled unless they put a glider kit chassis underneath the original components. then it would be titled to the new chassis.

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  • Not2L84U2
    replied
    The refurbed and retitled 2000 Pierce arrow they found was right at $75K on the nose. Odds are that its going to move quick though and they'll be lucky to find that when they need to.

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  • onebugle
    replied
    If it has been retitled with the 2000 it would be considered a 2000.

    That will be the issue with a refurbed/used vehicle. Will it still be around if the grant is awarded. These companies are looking to move them, not hold onto them for a possible sale maybe a year+ from now.

    What was the price for the pump? I'm thinking that finding a pump under 10 years old, in excellent shape etc. will probably go 6 figures at least, depending on what they are looking for.

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  • Not2L84U2
    replied
    Originally posted by BC79er View Post
    You only have to take a truck out of service if it is a safety issue. more accurately if you claim it as a safety issue. Too many people were claiming death trap and then still using the truck. So if they want to keep it in service for whatever reason, just have to explain that end of it, parade piece or extreme reserve.
    Gotcha!

    Next question...they found a 1991 Pierce Javelin that was refurbed and retitled in 2000 technically as a Pierce Arrow. So now what year do you consider it? Is it a 2000 or a 1990? Told them that chances are that vehicle won't be around when it comes time for award, but just asking for future knowledge.

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  • BC79er
    replied
    You only have to take a truck out of service if it is a safety issue. more accurately if you claim it as a safety issue. Too many people were claiming death trap and then still using the truck. So if they want to keep it in service for whatever reason, just have to explain that end of it, parade piece or extreme reserve.

    Leave a comment:


  • Not2L84U2
    replied
    Originally posted by onebugle View Post
    Since, the refurb will not meet NFPA 1912 requirements, it will be a problem. The AFG will not fund it for that reason. So refurbishing the 29 y/o vehicle would be out of the question, meaning the only option is to replace it with a new or used vehicle.

    The NFPA uses a 25 year serive life as a benchmark or ROT, but there are a host of issues that will determine the service life of apparatus. A big urban area may be 10 years due to the call volume and use & abuse, where a rural department with low call volume and the equipment isn't abused, could get between 25-30 years without a problem. Maybe that used apparatus may get you an additional 15 years, based on its condition. An issue that would have to be explained in the narrative.

    If you are looking at used apparatus (IMO), look at apparatus 10 years or under.
    I just read the PG and saw where it quoted NFPA 1912. I was on my way to go read it and thought I would stop by here first. Glad you saved me the trouble.

    Do you think you could get a 97 or newer for less than $50K or $75K? I don't have a clue what used vehicles are running.

    So since both their engines are over 25 years old then they don't have to take them both out of service do they? I'm sure it would afford them a higher priority, but they have to have something as a back up truck.

    If they go to take their vehicle out of service because of safety reasons and to meet the requirements of the grant, can they keep it as long as they don't use it for firefighting purposes? The vehicle they are looking at replacing is the one and only vehicle their department has ever bought brand new and they want to keep possession of it for sentimental reasons and use it for a parade truck. Is that allowable?

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  • onebugle
    replied
    Since, the refurb will not meet NFPA 1912 requirements, it will be a problem. The AFG will not fund it for that reason. So refurbishing the 29 y/o vehicle would be out of the question, meaning the only option is to replace it with a new or used vehicle.

    The NFPA uses a 25 year serive life as a benchmark or ROT, but there are a host of issues that will determine the service life of apparatus. A big urban area may be 10 years due to the call volume and use & abuse, where a rural department with low call volume and the equipment isn't abused, could get between 25-30 years without a problem. Maybe that used apparatus may get you an additional 15 years, based on its condition. An issue that would have to be explained in the narrative.

    If you are looking at used apparatus (IMO), look at apparatus 10 years or under.

    Leave a comment:


  • Not2L84U2
    replied
    Ok, so here's some more questions....

    If you're trying to refurb a 78 and the company doing the refurb says they can't enclose the cab because of the location of the air intake, will that be a problem since it won't meet NFPA?

    Also, since Annex D says that you should replace anything over 25 y/o is it going to be an issue to try and refurb something that is 29 y/o?

    So when you're doing your cost benefit equation, how do you determine the service life of the vehicle for a refurb or for a used vehicle? Surely you wouldn't still use the 25 year mark. For used vehicles, if it were a 1990 then would the service life of the vehicle be 8 years??

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  • ktb9780
    replied
    Yes they could.

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  • Not2L84U2
    replied
    So since you can apply for both Vehcile and Ops & Safety this year, then essentially you could apply to refirb an existing vehicle under ops & safety and apply for a used vehicle under the vehicle program? Helping a department that has a 71 and a 77 (average age of their fleet is 25+ y/o). Looking at applying to replace the 71 with a used vehicle (low call volume and population so trying to keep cost benefit down by going used) but could they apply to refurb the 77 as well?

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  • BC79er
    replied
    If it doesn't retitle the vehicle under state DOT laws then it's an equipment grant. That was the last explanation that came out that I heard from DHS, but might want to pass it by them since you're wanting to do more than most.

    Leave a comment:


  • SWFD94
    replied
    Okay...here is another "equipment" or "Vehicle" Category question. We have three front-line pumpers....our first-out pumper on everything is a 1984 Pierce Arrow 1000/1000. We then have a 1978 Ford/Pierce 1000/750 and a 1999 IHC/S&S 1000/2000. My question focuses on our '84 Pierce.

    It is a two door canopy cab. Water tank is steel. Body is in relatively good shape, but has some rust spots. Truck is very outdated. I don't see any need to replace it, as it is still in good mechanical shape and pumps like a charm. What I would like to see done is to refurb it....enclose the jump seats into a four-door, climate-controlled, cab....update the electrical system by adding new warning lights and relocating the siren/horns. I would like replace the water tank with a poly tank, and add a few other pieces of equipment and some new paint/cosmetics. Maybe look at overhauling the engine and tranny, if needed.

    My question is...would that fall under equipment or vehicle. I could see both places, as I am adding some equipment, but also looking at working on the engine, tranny, pump, and electrical system. I haven't given this much thought in the past, as we received a vehicle a few years ago and I knew we were inelligible. I didn't know they had revised the vehicle requirements.

    Any assistance/advice?

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  • BC79er
    replied
    No problem.

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  • ntmd8r38
    replied
    Thanks Brian, I was pretty sure that was within the guidelines but it's nice to have validation from someone who knows.

    Leave a comment:

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