07 AFG - New Pumper Help

[quietone]

I am looking for help with suggestions / ideas on how to go about applying for a pumper in the 07 AFG. This won't be a replacement pumper, but a 2nd one to join our 1991 International commercial chassis. Our area is growing pretty quick and some of our fire flows are beginning to exceed our 91's capacity. Mutual aid is 20 to 30 minutes away. Should our 91 ever need replacement, we couldn't afford to just replace it outright and would like an opportunity to apply for funding assistance while it's still available.

What I'm looking for is basically, where do I start? Do I need rough quotes/guesstimates or firm prices before I apply? Custom or Commercial chassis? Equipment (ladders/hose/tools/etc...) included? New or Used? This is a 'start from scratch' operation and I plead ignorance. We've got a rough idea already and have separated the wants from the needs. We just don't know where to start for the application period that is rapidly approaching.

We've been fortunate in the past and have gotten awards for equipment that was desperately needed, but never applied for apparatus. Mostly because it was difficult to come up with the 10 (now 5)% matching portion.

If anyone in a similar situation has been successful in the past, it would be greatly appreciated if you could lend a hand. Some step by step info would be perfect. If I'm peeing in the wind, let me know that too before we get started.

Thanks in advance for your help!

[dwl-mfri]

Where do you start?

Quietone,

The first place to start is by reading the Program Guidance. Before you say that it hasn't been released, I will tell you that the basic rules change very little so reading last year's will not harm you. And then read this year's when it is released to note any changes.

That said, you are going to have a difficult time, let me rephrase that, near impossible time, convincing DHS and the peer reviewers to give you consideration for replacing a second line piece of apparatus. The purpose of the AFG program is to help departments meet basic needs and as a peer reviewer for every year of the program, I can tell you that there are departments out there that are running some bad units as their first out.

You need to address your priorities and match them to the DHS priorities. In this case, a second line unit just doesn't cut it. Save yourself some time and effort. Go after something that really addresses what your department and your community need.

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

What he said, especially if you're going into it thinking that you want something to back the 1991 up.

Now if you're needing something to replace that as a front line unit because it is 2 door, low pump capacity, etc. That's different. Especially if what's behind the 1991 is either nothing or 70s vintage.

But as the man said, there are no awards for secondary anything. PPE, SCBA, trucks, nothing. You have to be asking for a front line unit.

On the other questions, yes, you want to have an idea of exactly what you want, and how much it costs plus some inflation fudge factor. If you don't do your homework you'll ask for too little and risk defaulting on the award, or paying a large amount out of your own pocket to make it happen. Neither one is a good option, so spend the couple of hours doing some truck research and pricing. Easiest thing is to search the New Delivery sites, check specs, and ask the local sales rep how much that truck cost. Nearly everyone has computer based spec & price software so they can upload and reprice a truck in no time.

- Brian

[befferk]

Along the 2nd unit line of thinking.... Here's what our department wants to do. Background: We have 2 tankers, VERY rural area. They both roll to every rural call. With our water sources so spread out it really is a necessity for us. The shuttling takes so long that if we had only 1 tanker, the basket would be empty. By the time mutual aid comes, the house/barn is either gone or we have it under control. Both tankers are in awful shape, both are past the 20 year mark. They were purchased used - one was a salt truck, so it is pretty rusted out. Anyway, they want to replace the worst of the 2. Both actually need replacing. Is applying for one even a viable option? I know they are going to make me try anyway

Beth

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

If you have done your assessment and a vehicle is the greatest need to improve the safety & the operations of the department, then that is the easiest narrative to write. If people have multiple needs we always cover the equipment first as PPE, SCBA, hose, radios, etc are all high priorities in a bigger bucket of money than what there is for trucks.

[onebugle]

Beth,

How much water does each tanker carry?

[dwl-mfri]

Setting your priorities

One of the things that they often tell you at the AFG workshops and one of the things that they always tell us as peer reviewers is that is is not as important how you get to the dance but how you look when you get there. You need to make sure that your department members have the PPE and tools to do there job as your highest priority when asking for grant funds. If these needs are satisfied, then you have a stronger justification for apparatus. But there are too many departments out there wearing PPE that was purchased 20 years ago and is hanging on by threads. When you line those up against someone who is asking for a new pumper to replace one only ten years old, guess who gets the money?

Dave

[befferk]

Beth,

How much water does each tanker carry?

I am very new on the department (previously "just" the grant writer, lol) so I will ask my husband and report back.

Beth


ETA: 2000 gallons

[onebugle]

I'm probably going through a major brain malfunction at the moment.
ETA? is that 2000 gallons each tanker (4000 total) or 2000 gallons total between the 2 tankers (1000 each)?

[befferk]

I'm probably going through a major brain malfunction at the moment.
ETA? is that 2000 gallons each tanker (4000 total) or 2000 gallons total between the 2 tankers (1000 each)?

Sorry, ETA=edited to add

I believe he meant 2000 each.

Beth

[onebugle]

Anyway, they want to replace the worst of the 2. Both actually need replacing.

Replacing both tankers with one tanker is not a bad idea. A new tanker with sufficient water (3500 gallons) with a better delivery system, may be just as effective. The key to this is how your deprtment operates its' shuttle system.

Do the current tankers arrive and dump into a portable tank or just pump into a supply line to the attack engine? If into a tank is it sufficient capacity to hold water from both tankers so one tanker is not sitting waiting for the portable tank to empty before off loading? Is mutual aid responding on the initial call for a structure fire or is it delayed until someone arrives and reports a working fire? Do mutual aid departments train together on setting up a shuttle system (or is distance too much of a factor)?

Food for thought.

As a "newbie" of the department you will still be considered

"just" the grant writer

until you retire. Good luck with the department.

[befferk]

Thanks for the help, onebugle. I apologize for hijacking someone else's thread (again ) but I am having the worst problems starting a new thread, not to mention I can't search AT ALL. I tried on 2 different computers.

Anyway, I appreciate the help, and I will address each one of the questions you posed in our narrative in one form or another. I basically wanted to know if we would automatically be "out" since we have 2 tankers. I know the competition is stiff at best, but we have new SCBA and turnout, and this is what we really need to work on next with being so rural. Only 4% of our district has hydrants, and the last big fire we had in town, the water department told us we had to stop using from the hydrants because we used too much water.

Thanks!
Beth

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

the water department told us we had to stop using from the hydrants because we used too much water

I'm sure the customers whose place was burning appreciated that.

Bruce from Weston just posted about an email from DHS claiming a 'change in concept' for vehicles this year. Anyone got any guesses on that?

[onebugle]

the water department told us we had to stop using from the hydrants because we used too much water.

I guess the hydrants are reserved for dog use only.

[Not2L84U2]

Bruce from Weston just posted about an email from DHS claiming a 'change in concept' for vehicles this year. Anyone got any guesses on that?

Well come on Brian...don't keep us in suspense...what's your guess?