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  • #16
    Missed that part of it the first time. If the truck was ordered prior to the application submission, or in the stream somewhere (had approval, reviewing bids, etc) then it had to have been declared on the application as a 2006 truck in service currently with the department. If this was done, then all is good on that front.

    If it wasn't, then contact your FPS to see if purchasing the new truck that you needed the grant for is still valid since you already bought it. Better to ask now than wait until the site audit and watch them tow the truck bought with the grant away. Has happened a lot unfortunately.
    Brian P. Vickers
    www.vickersconsultingservices.com
    Emergency Services Consulting
    Westlake VFD - Houston, TX
    Proud Member IACOJ - Redneck Division

    Comment


    • #17
      I would echo that advice. If you had it in the stream and declared your intent prior to the grnat being filed then you are OK but, if you got it afterwards it is going to be pretty hard to justify that you were " financially needy" and then accept the other grant. Call FPS at firegrant support and fess up, less you get caught between a rock and hard place.
      Kurt Bradley
      Fire/EMS/EMA Grant Consultant
      " Never Trade Skill for Luck"

      Comment


      • #18
        Ok, we submitted the grant a month before we even got approved from the town. Then we got plans rolling and got one ordered April29th,2006. We took delivery of it in Sept 06. We put down on the grant for a safty issue on getting a new pumper, replacing a 1972 Howe, 750gpm,750 booster. A grant writing instructor told us that we would be ok if we ordered it after the application was sent in. I hope she was right. Thats all I know at this time.
        Live everyday like its your last,for one day...it will be !!!

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by onehotcowboy
          Ok, we submitted the grant a month before we even got approved from the town. Then we got plans rolling and got one ordered April29th,2006. We took delivery of it in Sept 06. We put down on the grant for a safty issue on getting a new pumper, replacing a 1972 Howe, 750gpm,750 booster. A grant writing instructor told us that we would be ok if we ordered it after the application was sent in. I hope she was right. Thats all I know at this time.

          Is that grant writing instructor going to make up the money the FEDS is going to want back?

          This is an arguement for the instructors that are specializing in the Fire Service.

          And, it is a good example of a situation where it is best NOT to act first
          and ask for forgiveness later. I would be contacting the AFG folks on Monday.....

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by onehotcowboy
            Ok, we submitted the grant a month before we even got approved from the town. Then we got plans rolling and got one ordered April29th,2006. We took delivery of it in Sept 06. We put down on the grant for a safty issue on getting a new pumper, replacing a 1972 Howe, 750gpm,750 booster. A grant writing instructor told us that we would be ok if we ordered it after the application was sent in. I hope she was right. Thats all I know at this time.
            We purchased a 1978 Pumper from the Grafton Wisconsin fire department back in 2000. We still have it in service as a pumper/rescue. It amazed me when we were out there how the fire service works. You guys approach your town for such things, and they approve it for you. Here in PA, we have nothing like that. I think the state of PA has things all messed up when it comes to funding for the volunteer departments. We HAVE to rely on our own fundraising activities to purchase stuff such as this. We do have our volunteer relief, but we can go through that with the simple updates to our equipment to keep it going. If there is any way possible, you guys could transfer ownership of the Pumper to us and then you could get the one through the grant. LOL I hope it all works out for you. I am patiently waiting for our DJ notice.

            Comment


            • #21
              IMHO you better talk to AFG and firegrant support before accepting that pumper.Not wishing to cast the first stone here but, I can foresee FRONT PAGE HEADLINES about abuse, fraud etc.., who knows where the press or some citizen would take this and probably rightfully so.

              Do the right thing here guy, tell them you found the financial resources to afford the purchase yourself, and let them fund someone less fortunate than you. Too few trucks, too little money!
              Kurt Bradley
              Fire/EMS/EMA Grant Consultant
              " Never Trade Skill for Luck"

              Comment


              • #22
                Well, first thing first. Lets just see if we get the money first, then if we do we will call and find out more info. Kinda jumpin the gun here I am, just lookin for input. Thanks for the info. Will let you all know how it pans out, Thanks again....
                Live everyday like its your last,for one day...it will be !!!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Per the PG: Applicants must include in their vehicle inventory any vehicle that is on order if the department or its sponsoring municipality has signed a contract or otherwise committed to purchase said vehicle.

                  So if the town was considering the order of the vehicle before April 7th and just hadn't had the vote to approve the purchase the y'all are in the magic gray area. But either way your financial condition certainly wasn't accurate since they managed to have a truck ordered within 22 days of the application period closing.

                  In Kurt's previous post about 'Rock' and 'Hard Place' I believe those might be prisoners in the federal corrections system.

                  As LV said, the grant writer isn't on the hook, y'all are if there is any fraud etc. It is better to be up front with DHS than surprise them at audit time. This is definitely not a case of better to ask forgiveness than permission.

                  Since y'all have the 1199A and questions, better contact them tomorrow.
                  Brian P. Vickers
                  www.vickersconsultingservices.com
                  Emergency Services Consulting
                  Westlake VFD - Houston, TX
                  Proud Member IACOJ - Redneck Division

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by LVFD301
                    Is that grant writing instructor going to make up the money the FEDS is going to want back?

                    This is an arguement for the instructors that are specializing in the Fire Service.
                    And, it is a good example of a situation where it is best NOT to act first
                    and ask for forgiveness later. I would be contacting the AFG folks on Monday.....
                    AMEN!! No point in "waiting to see if you get the money", you got the 1199 and 10q's. It will be much easier if the department in question calls ASAP. I'm by no means an expert, but i'd be willing to bet that your pre-award purchase won't qualify as an emergency under the PG.

                    After the call to the AFG help desk, the next step would be to get approval for somebody to roll 400 miles south in March to get some proper public safety grant training. Just a thought.

                    earl

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      WHOA!!!!!!! First off, we went off our Fire Dept finances. We did not plan on getting ANY truck before the grant was made out, unless we got a grant. We are not trying to HIDE anything. You all dont know the whole situation, behind this. I just come on here to ask some questions, and now Im a criminal, fraud, abuser...etc. We are going to contact the grant office, not knowing if we can use this to pay for the new truck, or another one. Our main decision on getting a new truck right away was made because the 2007 chassis cost 7000-8000 dollars more because of the new emissions. Like I stated, we applied for the last 3-4 years and never made it to any level. So within 2 weeks we decided to act on getting a new truck.Which was in mid-April. We did have to go to our Town to do it, because our Fire Dept is VERY low funded. And let me tell you...it was not easy. They were not aware of this until mid-April. We would like to get a new Tanker in the next couple of years, but I guess we cant apply for a grant because we are thinking about now. We want to get a grant to purchase a JAWS, but...we thought about it before we submitted the grant...so I guess thats void to. I guess no-one here thinks about what they want before they put in for a grant. Thats how Im taking all these responses.I want to thank you for making us feel like total CRAP for trying to make our dept better, to serve our community better...especially when we are STRICTLY VOLUNTEER, NO PAY or SEVERANCE what so ever. Sorry to inconvienance all of you.Sorry I asked ANY questions. Thought I could come here and not get bashed. As far as driving 400 miles south to get "PROPER" training...I did not know how blessed we are to have such an "ELITE" instructors so close to our state that is so stupid. Im sure you all put fires out better than everyone also, but thats another topic.
                      Live everyday like its your last,for one day...it will be !!!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Settle down hoss, no one is here trying to make y'all feel like crap. We're here to make sure that you keep your grant award. And I'm a volunteer like most everyone else here so that no pay thing is kind of a moot point. I've been in 14 years, no pay per call, no stipend, no retirement, no big deal to me that's why I've had two jobs since I was 14.

                        Anyway, given what you've typed so far everything is ambiguous enough that we can't give you a set answer. And even then it doesn't matter what we say because you need to get approval from DHS on it since they're the ones whose sandbox we're playing in. I know they won't let you pay for the truck that came in September because you can only do that if you get prior approval to do so. They need to clear it before you even order the truck, so that option is out.

                        Technically, the truck wasn't ordered or anything until after the grant app was submitted. So you didn't need to count it on the application. But I can tell you that it will be a hard sell that in less than 2 weeks after that you convinced the town to buy you one without ever mentioning it before.

                        Get with DHS and let them know tomorrow what the situation is. If they have no problem with it then build it like a tanker because that will be allowed also.

                        Again, we're trying to keep your fat out of the fire. Because if you do not bring it up to them they could tow the truck at the site audit. It has been done several times before, that's why we're strongly advocating the contact. We're not disagreeing y'all don't need a new truck, or that you shouldn't have scored as high as you did to have a pending award. But if you want to keep it make the phone call tomorrow.
                        Brian P. Vickers
                        www.vickersconsultingservices.com
                        Emergency Services Consulting
                        Westlake VFD - Houston, TX
                        Proud Member IACOJ - Redneck Division

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by onehotcowboy
                          WHOA!!!!!!! First off, we went off our Fire Dept finances. We did not plan on getting ANY truck before the grant was made out, unless we got a grant. We are not trying to HIDE anything. You all dont know the whole situation, behind this. I just come on here to ask some questions, and now Im a criminal, fraud, abuser...etc. We are going to contact the grant office, not knowing if we can use this to pay for the new truck, or another one. Our main decision on getting a new truck right away was made because the 2007 chassis cost 7000-8000 dollars more because of the new emissions. Like I stated, we applied for the last 3-4 years and never made it to any level. So within 2 weeks we decided to act on getting a new truck.Which was in mid-April. We did have to go to our Town to do it, because our Fire Dept is VERY low funded. And let me tell you...it was not easy. They were not aware of this until mid-April. We would like to get a new Tanker in the next couple of years, but I guess we cant apply for a grant because we are thinking about now. We want to get a grant to purchase a JAWS, but...we thought about it before we submitted the grant...so I guess thats void to. I guess no-one here thinks about what they want before they put in for a grant. Thats how Im taking all these responses.I want to thank you for making us feel like total CRAP for trying to make our dept better, to serve our community better...especially when we are STRICTLY VOLUNTEER, NO PAY or SEVERANCE what so ever. Sorry to inconvienance all of you.Sorry I asked ANY questions. Thought I could come here and not get bashed. As far as driving 400 miles south to get "PROPER" training...I did not know how blessed we are to have such an "ELITE" instructors so close to our state that is so stupid. Im sure you all put fires out better than everyone also, but thats another topic.
                          Wow.....I always try to remember one thing before I ask a question.......be careful what you ask for because you may not like what you get.....

                          Sorry for the bad news, this grant may have been the golden egg for your department.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by onehotcowboy
                            WHOA!!!!!!! First off, we went off our Fire Dept finances. We did not plan on getting ANY truck before the grant was made out, unless we got a grant. We are not trying to HIDE anything. You all dont know the whole situation, behind this. I just come on here to ask some questions, and now Im a criminal, fraud, abuser...etc. We are going to .

                            Durn. No one called you all those things. To a person, everyone said
                            to contact the AFG office for guidance.

                            I understand being upset about the situation, but make the call, see what
                            they can do for you - and relax!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by onehotcowboy
                              WHOA!!!!!!! First off, we went off our Fire Dept finances. We did not plan on getting ANY truck before the grant was made out, unless we got a grant. We are not trying to HIDE anything. You all dont know the whole situation, behind this. I just come on here to ask some questions, and now Im a criminal, fraud, abuser...etc. We are going to contact the grant office, not knowing if we can use this to pay for the new truck, or another one. Our main decision on getting a new truck right away was made because the 2007 chassis cost 7000-8000 dollars more because of the new emissions. Like I stated, we applied for the last 3-4 years and never made it to any level. So within 2 weeks we decided to act on getting a new truck.Which was in mid-April. We did have to go to our Town to do it, because our Fire Dept is VERY low funded. And let me tell you...it was not easy. They were not aware of this until mid-April. We would like to get a new Tanker in the next couple of years, but I guess we cant apply for a grant because we are thinking about now. We want to get a grant to purchase a JAWS, but...we thought about it before we submitted the grant...so I guess thats void to. I guess no-one here thinks about what they want before they put in for a grant. Thats how Im taking all these responses.I want to thank you for making us feel like total CRAP for trying to make our dept better, to serve our community better...especially when we are STRICTLY VOLUNTEER, NO PAY or SEVERANCE what so ever. Sorry to inconvienance all of you.Sorry I asked ANY questions. Thought I could come here and not get bashed. As far as driving 400 miles south to get "PROPER" training...I did not know how blessed we are to have such an "ELITE" instructors so close to our state that is so stupid. Im sure you all put fires out better than everyone also, but thats another topic.

                              I think the main thing these guys are trying to say is to contact before they grant the award. I do not see you being in any trouble unless you accept an award without letting the AFG know the complete story. I hope everything works out well for you guys.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ktb9780
                                IMHO you better talk to AFG and firegrant support before accepting that pumper.Not wishing to cast the first stone here but, I can foresee FRONT PAGE HEADLINES about abuse, fraud etc.., who knows where the press or some citizen would take this and probably rightfully so.

                                Do the right thing here guy, tell them you found the financial resources to afford the purchase yourself, and let them fund someone less fortunate than you. Too few trucks, too little money!
                                HHHHHHMMMMM...what does this say.....YES...they were accusing us. I still hope we get it!!! BC79ner, has at least been respectful, and has been very informational. It seems he really understands what I am trying to say or ask. Not afraid to ask questions for what I might hear, but at least be respectful and dont make people sound like dumbasses.I already know Im stupid on alot of this legality stuff...thats why I came here. Not to get the your really are stupid rubbed in my nose. Like come down 400 miles and get proper training...what the hell does that mean??? We dont have qualified people here??? You dont know the whole situation, so dont judge to harshly.
                                Live everyday like its your last,for one day...it will be !!!

                                Comment

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