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  • alanwal
    replied
    hi all first year to apply for grant . just learning this all but looking for a new mini att/resuce to peplace a sqad truck from 1986 not a fire truck but a put togther truckwith no pump . is there still hope . or start looking for a grant writter for next year. alan

    Leave a comment:


  • melvinvfd
    replied
    Originally posted by BC79er
    melvin, that may be a tall order. They don't check the age of the department anywhere. Might have been a case where historical call volume reported is what the department that used to respond to the area you now cover ran during the last 3 years. I'd have run that past an FPS before pressing Submit, but with 0 in there it makes it look there there were never any incidents in the area at all. Which I'm sure is not the case.
    Thanks for the info. I was afraid no one would ever get to read the narrative(where all of this was explained!). Looks like I may have been right.

    Leave a comment:


  • wfd4fireman
    replied
    Thanx for your kind indulgence...

    This is my last and final effort in this matter. Thanx to all for your kindnesses and expertise. I feel I have done as best as I myself know how to do. If the Chief of the Department wishes he may use this next year or send it along to the file no 13...Subj: (no subject)



    Data to include in a grant request for a triple combination vehicle that will serve needs here in _,_ and all of _ County via 911 dispatch


    We have in our fleet what had been a very fine older pumper unit that served our department admirably since 1984. Purchased outright via Community Development Funds and quartered in a targeted area this apparatus remained in front-line duty until 1997 when the station was closed for budgetary reasons leaving that area without adequate first-due coverage.

    The 1984 vehicle assigned there then became a dedicated stand-by or reserve/spare service second-line apparatus. With the passage of time parts have become unavailable to retain the truck even in second-string duty and it has consistently failed its annual pump test. Also when it is necessary to engage the pump even at below its maximum rating sometimes the gear does not engage . Therefore the unit is essentially unusable . Add to that the corrosive effects visible all over the body of the truck and we have a unit that has outlived its usefulness.

    The problem is one that can no longer be corrected mechanically owing to the age of the apparatus [ 22 years ] and the fact that the manufacturer is no longer in existence. That said, we regretfully are faced with the decision to decommission this older unit and put it in the future city auction, pending receipt of a new replacement unit .

    Having requested for a span of years a new fire apparatus and having no funds for capital improvements which monies are generated from carry-over cash from the previous operating budget or the city General Fund there have been some rare but serious times in the last few years when a shortage of fire -fighting vehicles had necessitated closure of fire stations .

    Some progress was noted in 2004 with the 10 year lease of a new pumper with elevated waterway for greater ease of aerial fire-fighting. Also the light-duty aerial device does allow for emergency extrication of entrapped civilians or uniformed personnel in that quadrant of the city where the quint is now quartered. However the need still exists to replace the present unit as described above [ 1984 engine] with a new apparatus .

    It is felt that a new triple combination pumper will serve the interests and safety of the uniformed and civilian members of the city and outlying county which area can be accessed upon request or notification by 911 county-wide dispatch serving an extended out-of-city population circa 250,000 strong according the 2000 census.

    Our present budget and foreseeable future budgets simply can not so much as absorb even a lease of a new vehicle and the mayor and safety-director have been very clear that no new equipment can be had while the tax base continues to erode from manufacturing plant closings reducing the monies in the General Fund annually by millions of dollars in lost tax revenue.

    This general trend extends back a ways in this part of the United States. A brief overview may be helpful to address this. The _. _FD has been correspondingly diminished over the last three [ 3 ] decades owing to the loss of manufacturing base in the now dubbed rustbelt which is struggling to become diversified in high tech industries as seen in nearby communities such as _ _ _ _.

    The _fd has diminished while the land mass has conversely increased in the last 35 years. Annexations at a time when these were relatively simple matters and not the complicated affairs of the present allowed for doubling of the corporation's land-mass. Outlying areas thus exist that are over 4 miles distant from first-due coverage ranging from 6-10 minute response times, and 6 miles distant from back-up ranging from 8-10 minute response times, being slightly in excess of the NFPA allowable guideline [ 8 minutes ] for entire first alarm units responding.

    A recent example was the total destruction of a 12-unit multiple occupancy in an outlying zone that was fully involved on arrival by downtown and outlying units at the 6 minute mark.Because the city is situated evenly east-west the downtown station has the bulk of the human resources assigned to a heavy squad unit so that this company can access most of the response area before any outlying station is able to arrive on scene. Two [2] lines are stretched as needed-primary and secondary to insure safety. Subsequent units arriving supply hydrant water as needed via lines and additional human resources in the fire suppression efforts.

    The continuing downward spiral economically has taken its toll on the fire service in terms of authorized human resources and fire vehicles . In the past it was possible to staff independent units for engine and truck work. Starting in 1921 a downtown city service ladder unit with 5 personnel responded city-wide along with the nearest engine company. With dwindling human resources from 96 in the past to 75 at present-below authorized numbers- the vehicles needed to do the job of suppression of a steady onslaught of serious fires have proven to be insufficient for maximum efficiency of the available human resources / personnel both for local use and similarly for county-wide mutual aide.

    During multiple alarm incidents the off-duty recall procedures allow for abundant additional personnel. The reliable apparatus though is limited for that purpose of additional response for relief, overhaul or simultaneous fire alarms. Therefore in harmony with the desire to provide improved coverage of the city and particularly the area that suffered the closure in 1997 a plan has been developed to re-open the closed facility on the southwest quadrant -low- income and blighted housing stock--of the city which building is still in the possession of the city and in good physical condition having been used hitherto for other city departments.

    A solution herein proposed is an all-new fire vehicle of the triple combination type that can do basic engine work as a first-due company throughout the southwest portion of our territory.The proposed new triple combination pumper vehicle is available via numerous possible vendors as a bottom line program truck with basic configurations that are adequate for our needs namely--1500 gpm pump - 750 gwt and a top-mounted pump panel for safety and better fire ground visibility.. .

    The new pumper would be staffed without hiring additional personnel by decreasing the minimum staff on the downtown Squad company 1 from the present 6 members to 3 members and deploying the remaining 3 members of 6 to the future re-opened southwest fire station. The mercantile district served by Squad 1 has steadily declined since the riots of the 1960s and the sprawl has been ever outward so that it can no longer be justifiable to concentrate most of the manpower downtown at the expense of outlying districts that are densely populated or at least densely built-up albeit with many frame structures --- vacant--- owing to economic decline generally and consequently these vacancies have become rife for arsonists and vandals to burn for various aims---- often to the ground.So the concept that is being developed is to more evenly locate fire suppression resources as is possible within tight fiscal restraints.

    To compensate for any reduction in other areas of the city or county where the 6-person Squad has been assigned to respond an additional engine would be dispatched to fill out the needed personnel for a 1st alarm assignment. Also when downtown units respond ,generally an outlying unit will fill-in so as to provide some protection for the mercantile area and also city wide coverage.


    The challenges are many to keep abreast of changing tides in the fire service and happily the technology continues to improve accordingly. We feel confident that this new engine will go a long way in improving the efficiency of the present department in its fire suppression efforts in _ and _ County, _.

    We trust your review of our request will receive a fine consideration as we endeavor to serve our people who have entrusted their very existence to our competence and help us obtain the apparatus/equipment to better reach upward, outward and forward to the future.


    Present fleet

    1984 engine 1250gpm-750gwt 2-door canopy cab.....spare

    1989 engine 1250gpm-750gwt 2-door canopy cab .....reserve

    1992 engine 1250gpm-500gwt 4-door crew cab....front-line

    1992 aerial-platform 1500gpm-150gwt-95ft ....front-line

    1997 rescue-haz-mat-command unit 3-door crew cab walk-in

    1997 rescue-pumper 1500gpm-750gwt 4-door crew cab front-line

    2004 engine 2000gpm-500gwt-75ft elevated waterway front-line




    Present minimum staffing per 24 hour shift

    18 personnel

    Rescue-pumper [squad] no1......6 personnel

    Aerial-platform no1......3 personnel

    Engine co no 5.....3 personnel

    Ladder co no 6....3 personnel

    Alarm dispatch.....1 person

    Duty chief.....1 person

    Safety officer.....1 person

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    18 persons per shift= total minimum



    Maximum is 25 persons per shift depending on scheduled days off, sick days etc.

    As more than minimum numbers report for duty additional units are staffed such as Rescue co 1 downtown.

    Also the engine companies receive additional personnel; as well as the ladder companies and the rescue-pumper or squad company as it is termed here

    Proposed re-organization with acquisition of a new engine for use at the downtown station covering the entire city and county as requested by 911.


    Squad 1......3 personnel

    Ladder 1.....3 personnel

    Reopened Engine co 3......3 personnel

    Engine co. 5......3 personnel

    Ladder co. 6....3 personnel


    Additional personnel would be assigned to these units up to a maximum of 25 per shift allowing for greater compliance with NFPA standards of staffing.


    The benefits of this proposal are improved first-due response to the entire southwest area of the city which remains a "targeted" area on account of low-income residents, blighted housing, and that portion of the county south of the city limits.



    Also a more equitable distribution of fire protection to taxpayers located in the southwest area that now depend on fire responses from the northwest fire station and the downtownstation.Better protection also for several older school buildings still in daily use by hundreds of students with no first-due fire protection at present.

    A more efficient use of the 75 personnel , reducing the large complement on the Squad 1 company from its 6 men to 3 men and deploying the 3 men to reopen the southwest fire station...[ a paid survey in the 1980s by a Washington DC firm suggested reduction of the squad staffing and deployment to outlying stations for greater efficiency ].

    The extra re-opened engine will also allow for a more efficient deployment of fire protection during simultaneous alarms ----whereas 6 men are now assigned to Squad co 1; only 3 will be assigned minimally in the future and 3 to the reopened station allowing one more unit in the field for independent fire duty as needed.

    Leave a comment:


  • BC79er
    replied
    melvin, that may be a tall order. They don't check the age of the department anywhere. Might have been a case where historical call volume reported is what the department that used to respond to the area you now cover ran during the last 3 years. I'd have run that past an FPS before pressing Submit, but with 0 in there it makes it look there there were never any incidents in the area at all. Which I'm sure is not the case.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chief310
    replied
    Originally posted by ktb9780
    Chief310 I beleive what he was trying to say was, " grant money is always only suplpementary in nature and that you should always be planning on NOT getting it and moving forward to accomplish your project, whatever that might be", thorugh your normal budgetary process. In other words , don;t put all your eggs in one basket. Hang in there, it ain't over till its over guy!
    Thanks - I like it better the way you said it.

    Leave a comment:


  • melvinvfd
    replied
    We are a newly formed rural department. We were certified by the state to recieve calls February of this year. My question is: Will we make it passed the computer scoring with no calls?

    Leave a comment:


  • ffp8106
    replied
    newest scba is 14 yrs old and they get used....dj's last 2 years...not confident this time either. advice from people we asked to review our app said looked great, but of course they're not the ones approving. wealthy depts nearby get funded and do not now how they could justify reason to be funded when every chief has a car, apparatus loaded, mansions for firehouses. we must be doing something wrong but do not know what. oh well...good luck to all.

    Leave a comment:


  • BC79er
    replied
    That's definitely the most important piece is that everyone goes home.

    My only thing with co-location like that is why not combine and then split the area in half? It's not just a rural thing, I know lots of places where one department actually responds past another department's station to get to the other side of the municipality because it's a C shape around the other municipality.

    Politics in the fire service? You're kidding right? Politics came into the fire service when Benjiman Franklin started the 1st US FD and then said 'I'm the Chief'.

    Leave a comment:


  • kd7fds
    replied
    Originally posted by BC79er
    kd, the computer keeps you from getting your narratives read, unless you're talking about different applications. Some getting through & getting positive feedback, others getting computer denied. Positive feedback on narratives doesn't do much good unless you make it past the computer, which is done through proper analysis & project design.

    The NFIRS thing wouldn't matter, lots of people have numbers and don't report. It's not a requirement to report before a grant award, just after so it's not a deal breaker.

    If you have 2 stations 3 blocks apart then there should be 1 department. This RFD/city department arrangement is killing more apps than people realize. Do we have to lose a rural FF in the line of duty b/c the "city" truck shuts off when it hits the city limits? If the city FD responds with everything but the "city" truck and 4 FFs to a rural M/A call, is the city really protected any better than if they made the call and had M/A cover?
    It really comes down to politics. The City Department was founded in 1895. The Rural Fire District was formed in 1973. The Rural Fire District really is a seperate department. They located their primary station inside the city boundaries so that they could have a larger pool of volunteers to pull from and because the city is located in the middle of their district.

    The City Department has a chief and 25 volunteers. The rural district has a chief and 30 volunteers. The departments have their own vehicles, seperate funding sources. No two volunteers are on both departments.

    Our city has an ISO rating of 4. We have engines and ladders that are designed to work in a hydranted area. The rural district ranges from an 8 to 10 in some areas. Their engines are wildland engines for the most part. Their structure engines are 4 wheel drive. They have water tenders and work from draft mostly. Their district also goes into the next state.

    We do work really well together. We mutual aid and automatic aid where appropriate. We train together occassionally. On mutual aid requests our community leaves it up to our IC's to determine how much equipment and manpower we can afford to send.

    The discussion of combining departments has come up before. 18 months ago it was looked at again. For a variety of reasons, some financial and some people oriented, it was shut down.

    As it is, between the two departments we have 55 active volunteers for a population of about 9,000 people. We get the fires out safely and efficiently. Thats what really counts in the long run.

    Leave a comment:


  • ktb9780
    replied
    Originally posted by Chief310
    Pardon me if I disagree, but it damn sure WAS mine in the first place. Where do you think they got the money to give away in the first place? TAXES, that's where. Taxes that were paid by ME and the rest of the residents of my district as well. If you think it's unreasonable to expect some of the the money that was once OURS to come back into our district, then count me unreasonable.

    Sorry if I snapped, but being on the conservative side of the political spectrum, it galls me when the government considers the money THEIRS, and they are doing US a favor when they give some of it back. It's not theirs, it's OURS, and we're doing THEM a favor by giving it up in the first place, and we expect them to do the right thing with it.

    Excuse me, I'll just jump down off my soap box now and get back to checking my inbox for the dreaded Dear John.

    Chief310 I beleive what he was trying to say was, " grant money is always only suplpementary in nature and that you should always be planning on NOT getting it and moving forward to accomplish your project, whatever that might be", thorugh your normal budgetary process. In other words , don;t put all your eggs in one basket. Hang in there, it ain't over till its over guy!

    Leave a comment:


  • Chief310
    replied
    Say what?

    Originally posted by Bones42
    Never get discouraged about not receiving money that was not yours in the first place.
    Pardon me if I disagree, but it damn sure WAS mine in the first place. Where do you think they got the money to give away in the first place? TAXES, that's where. Taxes that were paid by ME and the rest of the residents of my district as well. If you think it's unreasonable to expect some of the the money that was once OURS to come back into our district, then count me unreasonable.

    Sorry if I snapped, but being on the conservative side of the political spectrum, it galls me when the government considers the money THEIRS, and they are doing US a favor when they give some of it back. It's not theirs, it's OURS, and we're doing THEM a favor by giving it up in the first place, and we expect them to do the right thing with it.

    Excuse me, I'll just jump down off my soap box now and get back to checking my inbox for the dreaded Dear John.
    Last edited by Chief310; 11-01-2006, 05:58 PM. Reason: Edited for spelling

    Leave a comment:


  • BC79er
    replied
    Fleet is too new (3 out of 7 less than 10 y/o), also probably too large to support a vehicle request at all.

    It's not just about the age of the vehicle being replaced, it's about the entire fleet. That's why the computer would most likely kick any vehicle app you submitted before it got to Peer.

    Leave a comment:


  • wfd4fireman
    replied
    Data to include in a grant request for a triple combination vehicle that will serve needs here in ____ and all ____ county via 911 dispatch .



    We have in our fleet what had been a very fine older pumper unit that served our department admirably since 1984. Purchased outright via Community Development Funds and quartered in a “targeted” area this apparatus remained in front-line duty till 1997 when the station was closed for budgetary reasons leaving that area without adequate first-due coverage. The 1984 vehicle assigned there then became a dedicated stand-by or reserve/spare service second-line apparatus. With the passage of time parts have become unavailable to retain the truck even in second-string duty and it has consistently failed its annual pump test. Also when it is necessary to engage the pump even at below its maximum rating sometimes the gear does not engage . Therefore the unit is essentially unusable . Add to that the corrosive effects visible all over the body of the truck and we have a unit that has outlived its usefulness

    The problem is one that can no longer be corrected mechanically owing to the age of the apparatus [ 22 years ] and the fact that the manufacturer is no longer in existence. That said, we regretfully are faced with the decision to decommission this older unit and put it in the future city auction, pending receipt of a new replacement unit .

    Having requested for a span of years a new fire apparatus and having no funds for capital improvements which monies are generated from carry-over cash from the previous operating budget or the city General Fund there have been some rare but serious times in the last few years when a shortage of fire -fighting vehicles had necessitated closure of fire stations .

    Some progress was noted in 2004 with the lease of a new pumper with elevated waterway for greater ease of aerial fire-fighting. Also the light-duty aerial device does allow for emergency extrication of trapped civilians or uniformed personnel in that quadrant of the city where the “quint” is now quartered. However the need still exists to replace the present unit as described above [ 1984 engine] with a new apparatus . It is felt that a new triple combination pumper will serve the interests and safety of the uniformed and civilian members of the city and outlying county which area can be accessed upon request or notification by 911 county-wide dispatch serving an extended out-of-city population circa 250,000 strong according the 2000 census.

    Our present budget and foreseeable future budgets simply can not so much as absorb even a lease of a new vehicle and the mayor and safety-director have been very clear that no new equipment can be had while the tax base continues to erode from manufacturing plant closings reducing the monies in the General Fund annually by millions of dollars in lost tax revenue.

    This general trend extends back a ways in this part of the United States. A brief overview may be helpful to address this. _fd has been correspondingly diminished over the last three [3 ] decades owing to the loss of manufacturing base in the now dubbed “rustbelt’ which is struggling to become diversified in high tech industries as seen in nearby communities such as _____ _____; _____,_____, _____, ____and _____.

    The _fd has diminished while the land mass has conversely increased in the last 35 years. Annexations at a time when these were relatively simple matters and not the complicated affairs of the present allowed for doubling of the corporation’s land-mass. Outlying areas thus exist that are over 4 miles distant from first-due coverage ranging from 6-10 minute response times, and 6 miles distant from back-up ranging from 8-10 minute response times, being slightly in excess of the NFPA allowable guideline [8 minutes] for entire first alarm units responding.

    A recent example was the total destruction of a 12-unit multiple occupancy in an outlying zone that was fully involved on arrival by downtown and outlying units at the 6 minute mark.Because the city is situated evenly east-west the downtown station has the bulk of the human resources assigned to a heavy squad unit so that this company can access most of the response area before any outlying station is able to arrive on scene. Two [2] lines are stretched as needed-primary and secondary to insure safety. Subsequent units arriving supply hydrant water as needed via 5” lines and additional human resources in the fire suppression efforts.

    The continuing downward spiral economically has taken its toll on the fire service in terms of authorized human resources and fire vehicles . In the past it was possible to staff independent units for engine and truck work. Starting in 1921 a downtown city service ladder unit with 5 personnel responded city-wide along with the nearest engine company. With dwindling human resources from 96 in the past to 75 at present-below authorized numbers- the vehicles needed to do the job of suppression of a steady onslaught of serious fires have proven to be insufficient for maximum efficiency of the available human resources/personnel both for local use and similarly for county-wide mutual aide.

    During multiple alarm incidents the off-duty recall procedures allow for abundant additional personnel. The reliable apparatus though is limited for that purpose of additional response for relief, overhaul or simultaneous fire alarms. Therefore in harmony with the desire to provide improved coverage of the city and particularly the area that suffered the closure in 1997 a plan has been developed to re-open the closed facility on the southwest quadrant of the city which building is still in the possession of the city and in good physical condition having been used hitherto for other city departments.

    A solution herein proposed is an all-new fire vehicle of the triple combination type that can do basic engine work as a first-due company throughout the southwest portion of our territory.The proposed new triple combination pumper vehicle is available via numerous possible vendors as a bottom line program truck with basic configurations that are adequate for our needs namely--1500gpm pump/ 750 gwt and a top-mounted pump panel for safety and better fire ground visibility.. .

    The new pumper would be staffed without hiring additional personnel by decreasing the minimum staff on the downtown Squad company 1 from the present 6 members to 3 members and deploying the remaining 3 members of 6 to the future re-opened southwest fire station. The mercantile district served by Squad 1 has steadily declined since the riots of the 1960s and the sprawl has been ever outward so that it can no longer be justifiable to concentrate most of the manpower downtown at the expense of outlying districts that are densely populated or at least densely built-up albeit with many frame structures --- vacant--- owing to economic decline generally and consequently these vacancies have become rife for arsonists and vandals to burn for various aims---- often to the ground.

    To compensate for any reduction in other areas of the city or county where the
    6-person Squad has been assigned to respond an additional engine would be dispatched to fill out the needed personnel for a 1st alarm assignment. Also when downtown units respond ,generally an outlying unit will fill-in so as to provide some protection for the mercantile area and also city wide coverage.




    The challenges are many to keep abreast of changing tides in the fire service and happily the technology continues to improve accordingly. We feel confident that this new engine will go a long way in improving the efficiency of the present department in its fire suppression efforts in _____ and _____ , _____ .
    We trust your review of our request will receive a fine consideration as we endeavor to serve our people who have entrusted their very existence to our competence and help us obtain the apparatus/equipment to better reach upward, outward and forward to the future.


    Present fleet

    1984 engine 1250gpm/750gwt 2-door canopy cab…..spare

    1989 engine 1250gpm/750gwt 2-door canopy cab …..reserve

    1992 engine 1250gpm/500gwt 4-door crew cab….front-line

    1992 aerial-platform 1500gpm/150gwt/95ft ….front-line

    1997 rescue-haz-mat-command unit 3-door crew cab walk-in

    1997 rescue-pumper 1500gpm/750gwt 4-door crew cab

    2004 engine 2000gpm/500gwt/75ft elevated waterway


    Present minimum staffing per 24 hour shift

    18 personnel

    Rescue-pumper[squad] no1.…6 personnel

    Aerial-platform no1.…3 personnel

    Engine co no 5.…3 personnel

    ladder co no 6.…3 personnel

    Alarm dispatch…1 person

    Duty chief…1 person

    Safety officer…1 person

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    18 per shift

    Maximum is 25 per shift depending on scheduled days off, sick days etc.
    As more than minimum numbers report for duty additional units are staffed such as Rescue co 1 downtown. Also the engine companies receive additional personnel; the ladder company and the rescue-pumper or squad company as it is termed here



    Proposed re-organization with acquisition of a new engine for use at the downtown station covering the entire city and county as requested by 911.…

    [

    Squad 1.…..3 personnel

    Ladder 1.….3 personnel

    Reopened engine co 3.….3 personnel

    Engine co. 5.…..3 personnel


    ladder co. 6.….3 personnel


    Additional personnel would be assigned to these units up to a maximum of 25 per shift allowing for greater compliance with NFPA standards of staffing.


    The benefits of this proposal are improved first-due response to the entire southwest area of the city and that portion of the county south of the city limits

    Also a more equitable distribution of fire protection to taxpayers located in the southwest area that now depend on fire responses from the northwest fire station and the downtown station.

    A more efficient use of the 75 personnel….reducing the large complement on the Squad 1 company from its 6 men to 3 men and deploying the 3 men to reopen the southwest fire station...[ a paid survey in the 1980s by a Washington DC firm suggested reduction of the squad staffing and deployment to outlying stations for greater efficiency]

    The extra re-opened engine will also allow for a more efficient deployment of fire protection during simultaneous alarms ----whereas 6 men are now assigned to Squad co 1; only 3 will be assigned minimally in the future and 3 to the reopened station allowing one more unit in the field for independent fire duty as needed





    your critiques are welcomed members of the forum

    Leave a comment:


  • BC79er
    replied
    Not entirely accurate. What has happened in past years is that applicants claimed that the trucks were in such bad conditions that they created safety hazards for everyone on the road. Yet when awarded, the FPSs would find these same trucks still in service. That is why the question came about that if there is a major safety risk in utilizing the vehicle you are going to replace (if you said you were replacing one) will you be taking it out of service.

    Vehicle apps did not have to be only for replacement of current vehicles. I have several that are new purchases, such as the 1st tanker for a dept. There is nothing to scrap or take out of service.

    Leave a comment:


  • LVFD301
    replied
    Originally posted by Greenacres2
    wfd--You raised another issue in your last post. It's either in the PG or the 10q's that there is an understanding that when a vehicle is awarded to replace an existing vehicle, the old vehicle will be retired from your department. Auctioned, sold or scrapped are possibilities, but not moving it down the line. (somebody correct me if that's wrong--i'm working from memory)

    earl
    My understanding, and I have certainly been wrong once before (Today at
    least) is that you have to no longer use the truck in your own department. Trade in, sell, scrap, are all valid options, but your department must no
    longer use it.

    Leave a comment:

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