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  • #31
    thanx to all....

    who have kindly replied to the initial inquiry....I am posting some thoughts that I will email to the Chief and see how he feels...I am open to suggestions on this partial narrative..I have read through the replies and this narrative is what I have learned so far....



    Data to include in a grant request for a multi-purpose vehicle that will serve special needs here in warren and all trumbull county via 911 dispatch and reach to the highest floor at 109 feet....



    _fd has been correspondingly diminished over the last 3 decades owing to the loss of manufacturing base in the now dubbed ?rustbelt?' which is struggling well to become diversified in high tech industries as seen in nearby communities such as _________________ , __________ ,_________ and_______.


    The _fd has diminished while the land mass has conversely increased in the last 35 years. Annexations ----at a time when these were relatively simple matters and not the complicated affairs of the present--- allowed for doubling of the corporation?s land-mass. Outlying areas thus exist that are over 4 miles distant from first-due coverage ranging from 6-10 minute response times.



    A recent example was the total destruction of a 12-unit multiple occupancy in an outlying zone that was fully involved on arrival by downtown and outlying units at the 6 minute mark.

    Because the city is situated evenly east-west the downtown station has the bulk of the human resources assigned to a heavy squad unit so that this company can access most of the response area before any outlying station. Two [2] lines are stretched as needed-primary and secondary --to insure safety. Subsequent units supply water and additional human resources in the fire suppression efforts.



    The continuing downward spiral economically has taken its toll on the fire service in terms of authorized human resources and fire vehicles that are multi-purpose in their configuration. In the past it was possible to staff independent units for engine and truck work. With dwindling human resources from 96 in the past to 75 at present-well below authorized numbers- the vehicles needed to do the job of suppression of a steady onslaught of serious fires have proven to be inadequate for local use and similarly for county-wide mutual aide.



    A solution herein proposed is a fire vehicle of the quint type that can do more than the ordinary engine or ladder unit. We are envisioning a multi-purpose vehicle-- a quint with 1000 gallons of onboard water and 109 feet of aerial stick and a 2500 gpm pump with high pressure capacity for hi-rise work. This new apparatus is unique in its features in that it has a comparitively large water tank.



    The present quint is 75 feet and the ladder tower is 95?. Neither is able to reach the highest point of dwelling in the many hi-rises inhabited by senior citizens in subsidized housing or hospitals , nursing care, office buildings and future construction of 5 new schools [FUNDED AT 90% BY THE State ] that are set back from the street so that long reaches will be needed to ladder these in the event of a serious incidents. Previous ladder specifications were limited by very restrained budgets and so compromises in ladder reach were necessary simply to afford better ladder equipment.The previous ladder that was decomissioned was 30 years of age and had a dangerous faulty 100ft aerial "stick" of a sort that had been known to fail. During a multi-alarm fire here the ladder slipped and fell several notches.



    However, it was pointed out by a committee of fire chiefs during an assessment center that the department was ill-prepared for rescue operations at the highest point of occupancy.

    The new type quint is available via a single supplier. Its 1000 gallon booster tank makes it desirable for use as a downtown unit to respond county-wide as needed . Some areas in the 911 dispatch zone have little to no water supply. So the 1000 gallons will allow for quick suppression of fire in its incipient stages.

    Rather than staff the proposed new quint apparatus with the present heavy squad complement of officer and firefighters we realize it will be prudent to staff it according to NFPA guidelines and thus for the first time in the history of this fire organization be able to deploy some additional help from the downtown to outlying areas where fire units have traditionally been understaffed.



    This understaffing is dangerous to uniformed personnel and civilian alike. The benefit will be that the minimum NFPA standard will be possible---two in two out on each outlying station ----benefiting the safety of all involved--- firefighters and residents ----distant from downtown fire responses.Thus units far away from back-up will then be equipped to deal with serious situations in their initial stages without heavy reliance on immediate downtown support as has been the case for over 80 years.



    The challenges are many to keep abreast of changing tides in the fire service and happily the technology continues to improve accordingly. We feel confident that this new special-type quint will go a long way in modernizing fire suppression efforts in ____ City and _____ County , ____ serving approximately 250, 000 people .



    We trust you will review our request with due consideration as we endeavor to serve our people who have entrusted their very existence to our competence and help us obtain the apparatus/equipment to better reach upward, outward and forward to the future.

    Comment


    • #32
      The way I read that you have 2 aerials already. Plus you have already decided on a manufacturer based on the comment to that effect. Game, set, match.

      Unfortunately I don't see Peer Review as a likely outcome. And since I wrote it in my articles and in the Podcasts, I can repeat it here without violating my contracts: no section headings, no specific budget discussion, no specifics as to the number of buildings really requiring a 109' stick. This creates more questions than answers, so the reviewers probably came away confused about what you really needed and why. Plus mentioning that staffing is already low says you might have trouble using the full potential of any vehicle. Trucks are nice but without bodies on them they don't do much. Despite the high population and other points going for you this is a very long shot. I can't predict a denial any more than I can predict an award, no one on this earth can. But as I said, I don't see Peer Review being very likely. JMHO.
      Brian P. Vickers
      www.vickersconsultingservices.com
      Emergency Services Consulting
      Westlake VFD - Houston, TX
      Proud Member IACOJ - Redneck Division

      Comment


      • #33
        Thank you for your expertise in this matter.

        Comment


        • #34
          I see a lot of contradictory statements which is confusing the reviewer and a distinct lack of details. You make a lot of general statements but have no factual data to back them up with. I also see the "manpower" problems that have been unresolved in your statements leaving the reviewer with a sense that you currenlty do not have enough personnel to man the existing units and you are now asking for another. You also state you already have two aerials and are asking for a third and I definelty think that is going to kill your chances for sure.I agree with Brian, I would also have to say that you are probably going to be looking at another DJ.
          Kurt Bradley
          Fire/EMS/EMA Grant Consultant
          " Never Trade Skill for Luck"

          Comment


          • #35
            Never get discouraged about not receiving money that was not yours in the first place.
            "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

            Comment


            • #36
              Again a thanks to the posters for the fine guidance. I realize I am far from qualified in this matter; yet, those in the City department that are in fact trained and even a specialist in the city for grant preparations have yet to produce anything better; so I took the plunge. I am beginning to better understand the data that is required to present a convincing arguement in favor of a given request. Thank you all for your honest appraisals.

              Comment


              • #37
                Recently I've had a lot of municipal grant people in my classes because writing for emergency services is a completely different animal than education or other grant programs. I believe Kurt has had the same enrollment experience there.

                Understanding the fire service is a major key in being successful in these programs. FDs have to take an active role in their grant writing, whether that's familiarize the city's writer with the fire service, or take over the process completely, someone has to know both worlds. A 7 figure app I worked on with a Batt Chief that took over the app from the city's writer is on it's way to being awarded for pretty much that reason. I've worked lots of others in the same boat.

                I know it's hard to imagine that something with the fire service being different from the 'real' world...
                Brian P. Vickers
                www.vickersconsultingservices.com
                Emergency Services Consulting
                Westlake VFD - Houston, TX
                Proud Member IACOJ - Redneck Division

                Comment


                • #38
                  Brian,
                  Something you said stuck with me and maybe you can elaborate, because it just may be the place where I stumbled in our narrative for a truck this year.

                  You mentioned something about "already selecting a manufacturer" causing an issue in peer review?

                  I noted in the narrative for ours that we had gone through an extensive search for bids/trucks and after reviewing three different companies based our grant request off of the best bid for the specs we had listed. I will fully admit that we listed a manufacturer in our application as "what we had chosen" based on the criteria we set forth in our truck committee search, just as we have done in the past when asking for equipment (i.e. "X" amount of money for a Bullard TI).

                  So doing the footwork before hand can get your application thrown out? Would seem to me that knowing going into your application exactly what you were looking for would make more sense then jsut saying we wanted a 1500 gallon pumper for "X" number of dollars. I'm not saying that when it came time to actually bid the truck after an award that we wouldn't go elsewhere if we have gotten a better bid for the same (or as close as possible) truck we have specd, but I just wondered if perhaps I was too narrow in my narritive?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Thank you for your incite. I will attempt to improve my thoughts and put them down more succinctly and re-think my rationale for a new downtown Quint unit 109ft 2500 gpm 1000 gwt to replace the present 15 year old 1500gpm/150gwt/95ft platform aerial and move it out away from downtown 2.5 miles to a station where it can be staffed as needed on pre-determined high-value high-risk assignments and also by special call and off-duty recall.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      The issue is that wfd states the following:

                      The new type quint is available via a single supplier.
                      This single source supplier violates this part of the PG:

                      (5)Ensure all procurement actions are conducted in a manner that provides, to the maximum extent possible,open and free competition. In doing so,the grantee must follow its established procurement processes when purchasing vehicles, equipment, and services with the grant funds. If the grantee has no established procedures, it should obtain at least two quotes/bids for the items being procured and document in the grant files the process used. Sole-source purchasing is not an acceptable procurement method except in unusual circumstances.
                      If you stick to one source, you eliminate any potential compitition which could result in higher pricing. There is no incentive for a company to give the best price when they know they are the only ones that can supply that particular truck.

                      In your case I don't see it as an issue. You had 3 bids/quotes for the apparatus. I just would not have listed the manufacturerer (IMHO), just the make up of the truck you are specing out.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        wfd, the base criteria for truck replacement is age over 20. Nothing in 2005 newer than 1987 got replaced. The reason there is no hard and fast rule for age is that it varies by year because the apps differ. Think of it like the cut score in golf, it varies depending on how the whole field is playing.

                        weez, per PG no bids are valid until after the public announcement of award, and mentioning a brand name is definitely a no-no. Since scoring at the table only comes underscrutiny when the scores are more than 3 points apart if you wave a flag in your app that people can identify (like 109' aerial, etc) and you get 2 that don't wave that flag and 1 that does, the 1 is the Reviewer that has to explain his score if it doesn't match the other two. Plus it looks like you aren't going to competitively bid the award after announcement as required by law.

                        You definitely want to mention that you have been doing informal bids and you are confident that you can purchase said vehicle for X. But saying you settled on one may hurt big.
                        Last edited by BC79er; 11-01-2006, 11:15 AM.
                        Brian P. Vickers
                        www.vickersconsultingservices.com
                        Emergency Services Consulting
                        Westlake VFD - Houston, TX
                        Proud Member IACOJ - Redneck Division

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          wfd--You raised another issue in your last post. It's either in the PG or the 10q's that there is an understanding that when a vehicle is awarded to replace an existing vehicle, the old vehicle will be retired from your department. Auctioned, sold or scrapped are possibilities, but not moving it down the line. (somebody correct me if that's wrong--i'm working from memory)

                          weezride--I've not done the volume of apps that Brian or Kurt have, but my take on brand names is that i don't want to risk creating a negative mindset with a reviewer who may have had a bad experience with Brand X. The folks who contribute their time to serving as peer reviewers are from the field and have had experiences like the rest of us. While their intentions are noble, they remain human for the week they are locked up in a closet reading our stuff. My superstition, your mileage may vary.

                          earl

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Thanks..I get exactly where you are coming from and if/when the DJ comes I will be better prepared for next time...Already found something to correct on next years application

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Greenacres2
                              wfd--You raised another issue in your last post. It's either in the PG or the 10q's that there is an understanding that when a vehicle is awarded to replace an existing vehicle, the old vehicle will be retired from your department. Auctioned, sold or scrapped are possibilities, but not moving it down the line. (somebody correct me if that's wrong--i'm working from memory)

                              earl
                              My understanding, and I have certainly been wrong once before (Today at
                              least) is that you have to no longer use the truck in your own department. Trade in, sell, scrap, are all valid options, but your department must no
                              longer use it.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Not entirely accurate. What has happened in past years is that applicants claimed that the trucks were in such bad conditions that they created safety hazards for everyone on the road. Yet when awarded, the FPSs would find these same trucks still in service. That is why the question came about that if there is a major safety risk in utilizing the vehicle you are going to replace (if you said you were replacing one) will you be taking it out of service.

                                Vehicle apps did not have to be only for replacement of current vehicles. I have several that are new purchases, such as the 1st tanker for a dept. There is nothing to scrap or take out of service.
                                Brian P. Vickers
                                www.vickersconsultingservices.com
                                Emergency Services Consulting
                                Westlake VFD - Houston, TX
                                Proud Member IACOJ - Redneck Division

                                Comment

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