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  • More CEDAP Questions

    CEDAP is asking for a copy of our IRS Form 990 and a copy of our "operating agreement" in our application.

    I may be able to use a copy of our county disaster plan for an "operating
    agreement", but our county does have agreements with any of the departments.

    I suspect they don't care to do it, as they would be assuming responsiblity for fire protection at that point. This is a common thing across our state - no formal agreements.

    On the IRS Form 990, we don't file that, as we fall well below the annual
    income levels that the IRS sets forth - IE, the IRS says for us not to file the 990.

    What to do?

  • #2
    Email and tell them there is no Form 990 per IRS regulations. They can't quite ask you to throw one together.

    By operating agreement they probably mean the formal arrangement between your department and the area you serve to provide fire protection. Somewhere there is a document that states that your department will serve the area. May be buried depending on the length of time the department has been serving the area, but usually there is some formal recognition with the local or county government that says only you will provide fire protection to this area on a primary basis.
    Brian P. Vickers
    www.vickersconsultingservices.com
    Emergency Services Consulting
    Westlake VFD - Houston, TX
    Proud Member IACOJ - Redneck Division

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by BC79er
      Email and tell them there is no Form 990 per IRS regulations. They can't quite ask you to throw one together.

      By operating agreement they probably mean the formal arrangement between your department and the area you serve to provide fire protection. Somewhere there is a document that states that your department will serve the area. May be buried depending on the length of time the department has been serving the area, but usually there is some formal recognition with the local or county government that says only you will provide fire protection to this area on a primary basis.

      Actually, in Missouri the state has JUST now recognized a need for such an agreement, and it has simply said that fire departments "CAN" submit their coverage area to the county commission in the county that they serve. No
      requirement, just stating that they can.

      There is no acknowledgement by the commission, no counter signature,
      just a statement from that department about the area that they cover.

      Scary huh?

      That law was passed simply because of a situation in the northern part of our county - where there was an existing membership based department, and another membership based department started up covering the same area. The new law should stop that from happening again.

      Comment


      • #4
        I'd just explain that to them and give them a letter from the county stating the same thing and that no other department covers your area. Just as a CYA.
        Brian P. Vickers
        www.vickersconsultingservices.com
        Emergency Services Consulting
        Westlake VFD - Houston, TX
        Proud Member IACOJ - Redneck Division

        Comment


        • #5
          We are having the same problem in Oklahoma. When I spoke with one of the reps with the CEDAP program they couldn't understand that there was a fire department that was not either a city or county fire department. I tried to explain to him that we covered an area that was not incorporated and there was not a governing body to enter into an agreement or contract with. We have talked with our State Rural Fire Coordinator and he doesn't understand their thinking. In Oklahoma 85% or better of the fire departments are rural and don't have any type of agreement other than verbal with the community they serve. The rep also advised me that AFG will be asking for this as well and in the future any Federal funding will require volunteer fire departments to have this on file before they will be eligable for a grant. I am wondering if this might be one of the reasons AFG is behind.
          Brian Cook
          Asst. Chief

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by LVFD301
            Actually, in Missouri the state has JUST now recognized a need for such an agreement, and it has simply said that fire departments "CAN" submit their coverage area to the county commission in the county that they serve. No
            requirement, just stating that they can.

            There is no acknowledgement by the commission, no counter signature,
            just a statement from that department about the area that they cover.

            Scary huh?

            That law was passed simply because of a situation in the northern part of our county - where there was an existing membership based department, and another membership based department started up covering the same area. The new law should stop that from happening again.

            Are these tax based districts LVFD? WHere do they get their funding?

            Comment


            • #7
              Donations, memberships, billing of non members.

              Comment


              • #8
                I didn't know there were any left up in this part of the state, I know they're plentiful down south around the lakes and all.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ntmd8r38
                  I didn't know there were any left up in this part of the state, I know they're plentiful down south around the lakes and all.
                  Overly plentiful down in this area (SW MO), but they're still around all over the state.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    AFG isn't behind because of this, but I'm sure the reasoning has to do with ensuring that there is someone to respond, only one primary responder per area. That way it can be pretty well established what the capabilities are in each area.

                    It's just a formalization of what already exists from what I can see. That and maybe a liability thing. If someone gets hurt and there's no formal agreement, who technically asked anyone to respond? So who's insurance helps out? Just another CYA thing, but a necessary item I think.
                    Brian P. Vickers
                    www.vickersconsultingservices.com
                    Emergency Services Consulting
                    Westlake VFD - Houston, TX
                    Proud Member IACOJ - Redneck Division

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ntmd8r38
                      I didn't know there were any left up in this part of the state, I know they're plentiful down south around the lakes and all.
                      Still pretty common down here, in fact there are some that still
                      will not respond to non members.

                      We are presenting to the membership in September trying to go tax
                      based.

                      What part of the state are you at?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yet another CEDAP question

                        I just got done reading Tim Dees article on CEDAP and in it he states

                        "To get it, you have to

                        • 1. Demonstrate "the equipment will be used to improve their ability and capacity to respond to a major critical incident or improve their ability to work with other first responder[s]."
                        • 2. Ask before everyone else does."

                        My question is in regards to his second point. Is he saying that if you have application number 1 then that provides you a better chance of receiving the items or is it if you're number 1 and you have a sound judgement or does it even matter what application number you are? I know with AFG your application number doesn't mean anything but didn't know if that held true for CEDAP or not. I wasn't sure if he was trying to make the point that it's like the lotto in regards to the fact that "You have to play to win" or not.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          App numbers don't matter in any grant program. Best guess based on the limited copy and paste you have is maybe he's alluding to applying before more agencies find out about the program.

                          Where was the article? --Never mind. Found it.
                          Last edited by BC79er; 08-30-2006, 04:37 PM.
                          Brian P. Vickers
                          www.vickersconsultingservices.com
                          Emergency Services Consulting
                          Westlake VFD - Houston, TX
                          Proud Member IACOJ - Redneck Division

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Sorry didn't want to take up the whole thread with the quote but I guess I should have at least put a link to where the article was.

                            Here ya go

                            http://cms.firehouse.com/content/art...Id=12&id=50886

                            --Oh yeah...and thanks for the answer Brian. I didn't think that was the case but just wanted to clarify. That's what I get for reading too much into things.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Not2L84U2
                              I just got done reading Tim Dees article on CEDAP and in it he states

                              "To get it, you have to

                              • 1. Demonstrate "the equipment will be used to improve their ability and capacity to respond to a major critical incident or improve their ability to work with other first responder[s]."
                              • 2. Ask before everyone else does."

                              My question is in regards to his second point. Is he saying that if you have application number 1 then that provides you a better chance of receiving the items or is it if you're number 1 and you have a sound judgement or does it even matter what application number you are? I know with AFG your application number doesn't mean anything but didn't know if that held true for CEDAP or not. I wasn't sure if he was trying to make the point that it's like the lotto in regards to the fact that "You have to play to win" or not.
                              The correct interpretation of that comment is that within the CEDAP application process, date of application creation is used as a tie breaker. While it does not impact your score per se, all other things being equal, the earlier application will get preference.

                              Please realize that there are a lot of other things that have to be equal in order to have two applications with exactly the same score. It would be pretty rare to have the creation date actually decide an award. However, it is there as a final tie-breaker, and that's probably why he suggested that you submit soon rather than wait until the last day.

                              Comment

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