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Garbage in, Garbage out....

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  • Garbage in, Garbage out....

    Further proof that you only get out of a database application system what you put in:

    Database lists 'unusual' terror targets
    Petting zoo, popcorn factory are considered vulnerable spots


    By ERIC LIPTON
    New York Times

    WASHINGTON - It reads like a tally of terrorist targets that a child might have crafted: Old MacDonald's Petting Zoo, the Amish Country Popcorn factory, the Mule Day Parade, Sweetwater Flea Market and an unspecified "Beach at End of a Street."

    But the inspector general of the Department of Homeland Security, in a report released Tuesday, found that these "unusual or out-of-place" sites, "whose criticality is not readily apparent," are inexplicably included in the official federal anti-terrorism database.

    The National Asset Database, as it is known, is so flawed, the inspector general found, that Indiana, with 8,591 potential terrorist targets — 51 percent more than New York (5,687) and nearly twice as many as California (3,212) — ranks as the most target rich-place in the nation.

    The database is used by Homeland Security to help distribute the hundreds of millions of dollars in anti-terrorism grants each year, including the program that cut money to New York City and Washington by 40 percent, while significantly boosting spending for cities including Louisville, Ky., and Omaha, Neb.

    "We don't find it embarrassing," said Homeland Security Deputy Press Secretary Jarrod Agen. "The list is a valuable tool." The source of the problems, the audit said, appears to be insufficient definitions or standards for inclusion.


    Hey Earl - hope your not increasing your premiums based on these findings that Indiana is a target rich environment.

    I can see Old MacDonald's Farm in there, it's a part of Americana since we sing all about it in Kindergarten. E-I-E-I-O!

    I don't know about the popcorn, I didn't know the Amish operated a factory. Something about modern machinary being against the religion. Details.
    Brian P. Vickers
    www.vickersconsultingservices.com
    Emergency Services Consulting
    Westlake VFD - Houston, TX
    Proud Member IACOJ - Redneck Division

  • #2
    It just gets more unbelievable every day. Extremely poor departments and communities all over the country can't get basic help with basic needs but a farm that noone can find and a beach that noone knows exists can be on a national database to help get federal funds, even when our major cities are sitting out in the open as major targets. Guess we really didn't learn anything after 9-11.
    The first law suits in the Chicago CTA accident were filed the same day as the accident with lawyers citing that since victims feared it was a terrorist attack the situation was excited and the mental pain will greatly out weigh the physical pain. Some people will do anything to get a buck, when will this s**t ever end.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think Mr. Lipton needs to get a math lesson from Mandy Patinkin ("Crestor can lower your cholesterol by up to 51%--and that's about half" If they need to be told that 51% is about half, they shouldn't be allowed to lower their cholesterol!! end of that rant.) 8,591 is 2.67 times 3,212--not "nearly twice as many".

      There are many possibilities--no mention of the criteria used to set the original list. If the goal of terrorism is to create fearful reaction, destruction needn't occur. My personal opinion is that the greatest widespread fear that could be generated in the USA would be accomplished with a single successful attack on SmallTown, MiddleAmerica. While it would not have the drama level of the WTC/Pentagon attacks, i believe it would create pandemoneum that would be nearly uncontrollable. Using that concept as part of the list development--it could look like a pretty bizarre list. Even at that, i can't see IN being more vulnerable than NY, CA, or a whole lot of other states and perhaps it's time for a review of the list.

      All that said, I once knocked the lid off of my hot-air popcorn popper whilst making a batch. On a large scale, it could be a terrorist event.

      earl (Popcorn is hot-air popper, Orville Reddenbacker, Land-o-Lakes butter & Morton's Salt. Never a microwave!!)

      Comment


      • #4
        Yeah Earl but the question still remains; what is the movie du jour to go with that popcorn?
        Kurt Bradley
        Fire/EMS/EMA Grant Consultant
        " Never Trade Skill for Luck"

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ktb9780
          Yeah Earl but the question still remains; what is the movie du jour to go with that popcorn?
          With popcorn done right, no movie necessary.

          earl (not a lo-cal snacker)

          Comment


          • #6
            My department is in Indiana. When is the money arriving and how big of a wheelbarrow will we need to haul it?

            Comment


            • #7
              No, no, this is Homeland Security money. You can't buy wheelbarrows. You have to buy air conditioned garbage trucks with it in order to haul the money. They are a highly important cog in the anti-terrorism machine.
              Brian P. Vickers
              www.vickersconsultingservices.com
              Emergency Services Consulting
              Westlake VFD - Houston, TX
              Proud Member IACOJ - Redneck Division

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by pmed19
                It just gets more unbelievable every day. Extremely poor departments and communities all over the country can't get basic help with basic needs but a farm that noone can find and a beach that noone knows exists can be on a national database to help get federal funds, even when our major cities are sitting out in the open as major targets. Guess we really didn't learn anything after 9-11.
                The first law suits in the Chicago CTA accident were filed the same day as the accident with lawyers citing that since victims feared it was a terrorist attack the situation was excited and the mental pain will greatly out weigh the physical pain. Some people will do anything to get a buck, when will this s**t ever end.
                Calm down Martha. Several years ago our county (like I assume every other in the US) was to nominate the likely vulnerable sites/activities/etc in our area. Each FD did so for their district. All worked up to the state and I assume to the feds. Apparently a lack of inititive in screening in some states.

                The largest business in our rural fire district has about 10 employees (see popcorn factory in IN). A have a huge hog breeding facility ($5m, 50000+ft2, 25 employees, 2500hogs). We didn't submit anything to the target list. We do have a 36" and 24" natural gas pipelines (parallel 6' apart) running thru or FD 1/2mi from town. Would make an impressive boom and in Jan Chicago would soon start to get very cold.

                The dumbest senator from NY was on TV blathering about this list. "Homeland Security should have prepared this list not people in IN". What a moron. Target nomination lists work from the bottom UP. But supposed to be reviewed/quality checked by higher echelons (DHS predictably missed a step).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Interesting. We were told by our State that we had a target area. That did not come from us at the bottom, but from those closer to the top.
                  "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    People like to jump to conclusion pretty quick, yes some of those seem riduculous. But they may look at our threat assement and think it is ridiculous, but is it? our village has a frozen pizza plant, and that in itself isn't to worrisome until you look at the amount of products and people it would effect. The plant has large coolers that use chemicals that when released into our atmosphere could do a lot of damage in our locale, Also the number of employees is fairly large. Look before you leap to conclusions there might be some rationale to it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Not nitpicking, but what is a "fairly large" number of employees? Our "target area" may contain over 1000 people in an extremely close environment (2 buildings about 3 feet apart). Just looking for comparisons.
                      "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

                      Comment

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