Is the 6 Qustions realy 7?

[SamsonFCDES]

I recieved an email from FEMA today with 7 questions on it. This is my first go around with Fire Act so I was expecting 6 questions like everybody was talking about. It also said in the subject 2ND NOTICE ALERT: XXXXXXXXXX. Does that mean they have already been trying to get ahold of me? If so, that is scary since I didnt recieve any other correspondance with them from before.

Also, I did grants for 3 departments in my area, but they didnt tell me what department the questions are for, nor will they anwer their phone.

I have filled out so many grants this year I am realy getting myself confused.

This level of stress and anxiety is simply...

AWSOME!

If I only knew what the hell I was doing it might be even funner.

Thanks

[FFCOPEMT]

Sam;

You are correct, the 6 questions are now 7. Also, if the e-mail said 'second notice' that means they made some sort of previous attempt to contact you. You might log in to your grant application and check the 'mail center' to see if you have any correspondence there. Don't worry though, they try very hard to get a hold of those they intend to award. I have heard of them calling several numbers and going through city directories to get in touch with the right person.

I almost forgot, your notice should have a grant # in the subject line or body. You can cross that against the numbers asigned to you when your grant was submitted to see which one they are talking about. Hope this helps.

[SamsonFCDES]

Thanks a bunch FFCOPEMT, it all makes more sence now. I did finaly put 2&2 to gether with the grant app number in the subject line. To tell the truth, I had kind of set aside the FEMA grant stuff with the asumption that no money would be available.

I was working on plan B for all three departments, but hepefully now I can call it good for one of them.

The other two fit nearly the identical criteria, are all in the same area, etc... So I hope the other two get their FEMA grants as well.

Thanks again for the info, I am pretty new to grants. Before we just kept haveing pancake suppers and saveing money, this is much much more enjoyable.

Since I am asking qustions here, I have a few more.

For the department that recieved the six questions, we requested PPE (full turnout), SCBAs with extra tanks, and a TIC.

Since the grant was sent in, we have found a dealer that sells reconditioned SCBAs (Dalmation http://www.dalmatianfire.com/) as much reduced prices. We asked for 12 SCBAs at new price, but we would now like to buy the reconditioned SCBAs at the reduced price. This way we can have an SCBA available for each department member, not just half the guys.

My qustion is, is it possible to amend the request to reflect our new direction we would like to take? In my opinion and in the departments opinion, more reconditioned SCBAs are a better investment then less new SCBAs.

Thanks for the help, and good luck to all.

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

As long as you're still buying the same product line, you can do it, just let them know. They won't object to it. Quantity changes are never a problem with FEMA, tons of people have done it because of falling prices. Within reason, if you stuck with 12 and bought the reconditioned instead of new, they would allow you to get something else. Perhaps something you didn't ask for, but still in the equipment category. Another TIC, more PPE, etc, etc. You could probably even mix and buy 18 reconditioned SCBA and something else. You can talk it over with your grant specialist, they're really easy going about stuff like this. Congrats.

Brian

[FFCOPEMT]

As already stated, they have let departments buy some things reconditioned. That is, as long as it is up to snuff as far as things like having PASS, positive pressure, etc. They probably will not go for buying some 30 year old crap that you will be asking to replace in another couple of years.

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

Quite true. I took reconditioned to mean packs that had been warranty replaced and reconditioned.

[MJFD10]

reconditioned airpacks

i would be very careful to specifiy the qualification level of the recon packs - if your grant mentioned current nfpa specs for your equipment it must meet the 2002 standards -1997 qualifications are very good but not now current and most all used will be no newer than that

[SamsonFCDES]

Originally posted by FFCOPEMT
As already stated, they have let departments buy some things reconditioned. That is, as long as it is up to snuff as far as things like having PASS, positive pressure, etc. They probably will not go for buying some 30 year old crap that you will be asking to replace in another couple of years.

6 year waranty, funtion like new, blah blah blah...

At least the vendor thinks their gear is a good deal.

http://www.dalmatianfire.com/msa.php

RECONDITIONED MSA MMR "Mask Mounted Regulator" Elite Mask

MMR Air Masks feature a sleek design and provide high performance in a comfortable, lightweight unit. Designed to provide exceptional peripheral and downward vision, the Ultra Elite Facepiece is available in three sizes and in a choice of two materials: silicone or SoftFeel Hycar rubber - an MSA exclusive. The design of the Ultra Elite Facepiece is based on extensive studies from more than 8,000 individuals. Performance is maximized by splitting the regulator stages, with the first-stage mounted on the cylinder backplate and the lightweight second-stage regulator mounted on the unit's full facepiece. An intermediate pressure hose connects the two stages and is routed through the harness. MMR provides a clean low-profile design with air hoses concealed within harness straps to reduce clutter and the bypass system conveniently located on second stage.

RECONDITIONED SCBA INCLUDES: Complete Regulator Overhaul, Reconditioned Harness Assembly, Powder Coated Backframe, Reconditioned Mask, Decal's, SCBA Quantitative Function Test, Cylinder Repainted, Hydrostatic Test, Visual Plus Inspection, Valve Overhauled, Cylinder Decal's and a 6 Year Warranty! SCBA will look and function like new. ** GUARANTEED **

Has anybody ever dealth with Dalmation before? How about with reconditioned gear in general?

Thanks again.

Oh, since we are on the SCBA subject, what are your preferances? Both departments in my county have MSA right now. We are going to keep the same make and model for both departments for interoperabilty and convienience of maintance/training.

There has been some interest in moveing to Scott packs instead of MSA. Can anybody give me a comparison on these two? Its one thing to put them on and suck air for a demo, but until you have a 100 runs on them, you cant realy decide which is the better unit.

Thanks

[SamsonFCDES]

Re: reconditioned airpacks

Originally posted by MJFD10
i would be very careful to specifiy the qualification level of the recon packs - if your grant mentioned current nfpa specs for your equipment it must meet the 2002 standards -1997 qualifications are very good but not now current and most all used will be no newer than that

Very good point. Which models of SCBAs meet the current 02 standards? I have just started shopping for SCBAs so I am still learning what to look for. The good thing about this grant is that it does give you some time to shop around for best deals/gear. Since this is likely a one time shot (at least for a long time) I want to make sure we get the right stuff and that it will last.

Our current units are VERY outdated. Our 12 current units are of 2 different bands (we have 2 OLD Scott packs that we are probly going to put on the wall in a display case when we get the chance, it is kind of neat to display antiques, but not to use them) and 3 different models of MSA. I would not even guss the year in which they went out of compliance.

Just out of curiousity, does the NFPA have such info on thier website? I will look myself, but if anybody can point me in the right direction, that would be much appreciated.

Thanks again for helping out a greenhorn.

[SamsonFCDES]

I just realized something...

There is no way I can afford to even look at the NFPA codes! Holy cow! 1200$ to buy the books, 1000 to subscibe to the website to view the codes!

I found which codes apply to SCBAs:

NFPA 1981 - Standard on Open-Circuit Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus for Fire and Emergency Services
Current Edition: 2002 Next Revision Cycle: Annual 2007
Document Scope: Covers minimum documentation, design criteria, performance criteria, test methods, and certification for open-circuit self-cintained breathing appratus (SCBA) used in fire fighting rescue, and other hazardous duties.
Technical Committee: Respiratory Protection Equipment - (FAE-RPE)
Staff Liaison: Bruce W. Teele

Intersting, but not worth 1000 just to read them.

So, what I am wondering is which SCBAs meet 02 standards? None of the descriptions on the Dalmation reconditioned SCBA site mention compliance with NFPA 1981(02). This has realy got me worried.

IIRC there now has to be a visual indicator of remaining air on the face piece, of course an integrated pass, but what else do you need for the new standard.

I think this just shot my money saveing plan in the foot.

Thanks again.

[SamsonFCDES]

I read a little coser on the Dalmation site in the Scott pack section, here is what it says:

RECONDITIONED SCOTT AP 50 4.5

This NFPA Compliant pak is built around a low profile, one-piece backframe. It features an ergonomic fit and includes standard padding, as well as wrap around hip wings for added comfort. Kevlar harness with Lumbar support system. State-of-the-art Face mounted “Quic-Release” high flow regulator with donning switch – exclusive “Vibralert” face mounted regulator alarm system for both audible and tactile alarm. The 4-point Kevlar Net style facepiece and the harness provides better helmet fit. Also featuring a redundant first stage pressure reducer system and a over-center retention band permits easy cylinder changes and accommodates 30, 45 and 60 minute cylinders. Parachute style harness fasteners facilitate donning and doffing. Options include the Pak-Alert™ SE, plus a quick-connect that allows for personal issue regulators.

RECONDITIONED SCBA INCLUDES: Complete Regulator and Reducer Overhaul, AP 50 Backframe and Harness Assembly, AV2000 Mask, Decal's, SCBA Quantitative Function Test, Cylinder Repainted, Hydrostatic Test, Visual Plus Inspection, Valve Overhauled, Cylinder Decal's and a 6 Year Warranty! SCBA will look and function like new. ** GUARANTEED **

It does say NFPA compliant, but I am wondering if it is 02 compliant? IIRC 50% of all departments in the US use Scott SCBAs, so they must be doing someting right.



For a reconditioned pak, that looks pretty sharp

[MJFD10]

air packs

you can purchase the individual nfpa standards for about $25-30 each from their web site and most can be downloaded immediately

for MSA air packs
newest model =Firehawk MMR with heads up display ,ultra elite facepiece with ICM 2000 integrated pass with URC emergency air fill

check with your supplier -these are priced about $3700 with 2216 carbon fiber bottle

go to MSAnet web for lots more info

[cmjones]

I know on Scott paks the new features are the HUD and the universal RIT connection located on the back. Also the PASS.

I would point you to Scott's Literature site but it seems to be down. Keep checking http://www.scotthealthsafety.com


If it ever comes back up look for AP50 Bid Specifications for NFPA 1981,2002 edition.

[EFD840]

The 2002 edition of NFPA 1981 requires the head-up display but I don't think the integrated PASS is required. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Because of the HUD requirement, I doubt you're going to find reconditioned '02 compliant packs yet. The standard is simply too new and the HUD requires significant changes to either the regulator or the facepiece depending on where the manufacturer decides to mount the display. Scott and Survivair put it on the regulator, I think most if not all the others put it in the facepiece.

Now to rant a little, I would choose requiring an integrated PASS and analog gauge over an electronic display any day. Besides the worry of adding an electronic component, the displays I've seen work something like a tank level indicator: Full, 3/4, 1/2, Low. Just exactly what does each level mean? Gimme my pressure gauge. IMHO, a 1997-compliant pack with integrated PASS is just as safe as an 02-compliant pack. End of rant.

We use 1997-edition MSAs with Mask-mounted regulators. The packs are fine but I've never liked the way the regulator connects to and detaches from the facepiece. I always seem to have a hard time connecting it while wearing gloves. I've used another department's Scott AP 4.5s at training exercises and found it much easier to connect/disconnect. Hopefully MSA fixed the problem with the firehawk series.

One more word of warning - If you use composite cylinders and buy reconditioned stuff pay VERY close attention to the date of manufacture for each cylinder. Unlike aluminum or steel cylinders, composite cylinders have a 15 year shelf life regardless of hydro test results. You don't want to buy a bottle that is already 7 or 8 years old.

Congrats on the grant!