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Specing a Tender

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  • #16
    Question for those of you that have been fortunate enough to purchase tenders in the past. My department has been looking at 2000 gallon tenders recently and a few manufacturers have brought down stock 3000 gallon tenders to let us "kick the tires". Both sizes are 10x the truck we currently have. My guys are now wanting to lean toward a 3000 gallon to allow us to have more water on scene. I know we are able to potentially purchase a 3000 with the award due to our neighboring district just ordering one a month ago that would be really close to our budget. What would be the best way to get bids for both 2000 & 3000 gallon tenders at the same time. Obviously this is more than just an option since we would need to go to a tandem axle with 3000. Would I just request 2 bids from the manufacturers, one for each type of tender? I am only able to purchase 1 and our budget shows that we are on that fine line of possibly having a few niceties (camera, electric tank rack, etc...) on a 2000 or a basic 3000. Both I am fine with, just need to get solid numbers locked in after my department gets awarded. Obviously once we get that portion done, price will probably be the driving factor. We all want the most bang for our buck as long as the manufactures are reputable.

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    • #17
      Put minimum in the must-have set of bulletpoints and then list off options that would be considered including larger tank, backup cameras, crosslays, or whatever else you want. You can also put that vendors can submit more than one bid for vastly different vehicles that would meet the specs, so whoever is dropping the 3000gal eye candy off can also do a smaller one since some of those options lists can get long when you cross a certain line. Like 2000 to 2500+ being the single axle vs twin screw option, since you don't want anything less than 400HP on the big ones, 450 if you have hills.

      Whether or not it's an option, you can add more local money to get bells and whistles added to the larger tank versions. The only thing you can't do is finance the local match with the lien being against the grant funded truck, so you can do what everyone else does and have the lien go against another truck instead. Some of the larger builders were doing unsecured loans if they were less than 20% more than the federal share since you're giving such a large portion in cash. That way you aren't without the electric dump tank rank and some of the other things like backup cameras that appear to be nice but are critical when it's just 1 person trying to do things. Not supposed to but let's play in real life, sometimes it's just the D/O on the truck. I've responded an aerial by my lonesome before, when things gotta get done, they just gotta get done.
      Brian P. Vickers
      CEO - Vickers Consulting Services, Inc
      FH.com/Firehouse Mag Contributor
      www.helpmewithgrants.com
      www.facebook.com/vcsinc

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      • #18
        Originally posted by BC79er View Post
        Put minimum in the must-have set of bulletpoints and then list off options that would be considered including larger tank, backup cameras, crosslays, or whatever else you want. You can also put that vendors can submit more than one bid for vastly different vehicles that would meet the specs, so whoever is dropping the 3000gal eye candy off can also do a smaller one since some of those options lists can get long when you cross a certain line. Like 2000 to 2500+ being the single axle vs twin screw option, since you don't want anything less than 400HP on the big ones, 450 if you have hills.

        Whether or not it's an option, you can add more local money to get bells and whistles added to the larger tank versions. The only thing you can't do is finance the local match with the lien being against the grant funded truck, so you can do what everyone else does and have the lien go against another truck instead. Some of the larger builders were doing unsecured loans if they were less than 20% more than the federal share since you're giving such a large portion in cash. That way you aren't without the electric dump tank rank and some of the other things like backup cameras that appear to be nice but are critical when it's just 1 person trying to do things. Not supposed to but let's play in real life, sometimes it's just the D/O on the truck. I've responded an aerial by my lonesome before, when things gotta get done, they just gotta get done.
        Thanks Brian. That's kinda what I was thinking but always nice to have some reassurance from others that have been down this road before.

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        • #19
          Just motorcycle courtesy carried over, point at the potholes and roadkill for those behind you.
          Brian P. Vickers
          CEO - Vickers Consulting Services, Inc
          FH.com/Firehouse Mag Contributor
          www.helpmewithgrants.com
          www.facebook.com/vcsinc

          Comment


          • #20
            Thanks to all that offered up help and advice to specing a tender. We got the job done and opened our bids earlier this week. We just inked the deal on a 3000 gallon tender with a 1000gpm pump. Looking like we should have it prior to X-Mas. It will be our 1st new truck since sometime back in the 40s.

            We put together a newsletter to keep the public informed of the grant and the process/progress also. Sending out the 2nd edition to the local paper today. Hoping to put some progress pics and other stuff in there as well until completion.

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            • #21
              Just a little progress information on the back side of the process. We signed the contract on 9/13 and our tender will be ready for pick up on 11/17. Here are some build pics that we just received today.

              Comment


              • #22
                We are trying to get some numbers for a new tanker/tender for the next FEMA application. Is there a number that FEMA uses for allowable price for one? I know that they want it to be a bare bones apparatus to fit the needs of the community as well as meet the standards of NFPA. We have salesmen telling us that they will okay these prices. I just don't want to apply for one with a price that FEMA will think is too much.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by MIDWESTCHIEF View Post
                  Just a little progress information on the back side of the process. We signed the contract on 9/13 and our tender will be ready for pick up on 11/17. Here are some build pics that we just received today.
                  That's awesome - we had to wait 6 months on a chassis.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by heideckerb View Post
                    We are trying to get some numbers for a new tanker/tender for the next FEMA application. Is there a number that FEMA uses for allowable price for one? I know that they want it to be a bare bones apparatus to fit the needs of the community as well as meet the standards of NFPA. We have salesmen telling us that they will okay these prices. I just don't want to apply for one with a price that FEMA will think is too much.
                    heideckerb, I had originally put down $220000 for a tender. The one we originally was considering was a 2000 gal with an auxiliary pump. We could have easily stayed at that price and fulfilled the scope. When we got the 1199, we started to discuss first within our department and then the community to see if we could afford one with a PTO pump and/or 3000 gallons. We felt we could come up with an additional 10-15K to get it done.

                    You are correct when you say they want you to stay with a bare bones apparatus, but keep in mind some of the options such as power drop tank will reduce chance of injury. I am sure that there were many other tenders out there that were approved for more than ours was but everybody's situation is a little different. For instance, I felt we left our request fairly low due to our low population which reflects on the cost benefit. If we were unable to overmatch we would have gladly taken what our request was for and purchased a 2000gal with auxiliary as it was an increase over the 1967 converted 1000gal we currently had. Just need to really consider everything and pencil it out. AFG was really easy to work with when I asked if we could increase anything. They stated that as long as it fulfills the scope of being primarily a water hauler yet, they were pretty much ok with it. There were just more benefits for us to increase the tank and pump size within our community and our community saw this was willing to step up and help out financially.

                    As long as you can justify the needs for the price both in narrative and to get past computer scoring, the worry if FEMA will think it is too much is the least of the worries; they can always reduce it if they feel that way in my opinion.

                    Good Luck

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by mitchkrat View Post

                      That's awesome - we had to wait 6 months on a chassis.
                      We were really fortunate as the timing of our just kinda fell into place. The builder was going to build a stock truck and had the chassis all the components on hand and as long as we did not deviate too much from their stock build, they were able to just insert ours into the slot. Worked out great for us. We were kinda wanting a 2Tone cab but that would have pushed our build back approximately 6 months since they would have had to order it. The color doesn't affect how well it works so we did not complain at all.

                      Comment

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