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Funding PPE and SCBA's

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  • Funding PPE and SCBA's

    Is it possible to get funded for both PPE and SCBA's at one time? Or how bout PPE and just new cylinders?
    We are a small dept. wanting to try and get 14 sets of PPE and 6 SCBA's. The SCBA's are NFPA 1981 (1987 Ed.) Old Scotts.
    Or maybe I could get someone to take a look at my narrative?
    Last edited by Smokey44; 12-23-2015, 02:35 PM.

  • #2
    There's another thread going on this too somewhere, but short answer is it depends. The matching calculation assumes that you have that amount of money in cash every year to put towards something. If it's just PPE and you're a 5% match, unless you have less than 10 FFs then 1 set a year doesn't get you anywhere since someone will always be over the 10 year old mark.

    Same with SCBA, the match is probably going to be less than 1 SCBA, which doesn't get you anywhere either.

    When put together the increased match asking for both in the same application look like you have more money for matching, i.e. more money for a PPE replacement program. Taking your number:

    PPE only: 14 sets at $2500ea = $35,000, $1667 local match (new math 5%)
    SCBA only: 6 at $6800ea = $40,800, $1943 local match)
    Both: $75,800, $3610 local match

    Now it looks like in Both you could pick up 2 coats and 2 pants every year, so in 7 years you have everyone in PPE less than 10 years old. Financial need looks at whether or not you could afford any part of your request, and here by the numbers it does since you could be running PPE replacement on your own and asking for SCBA only.

    In your case there's the other issues of why only you're only asking for 6 SCBA that has to be answered, since NFPA 1710/20 as well as OSHA require 12 SCBA at a minimum in order to achieve 2in/2out. If you have no other SCBA then you're not asking for enough to become compliant, which requires an explanation on why not and that may not score well either. Certainly you could go down the route of you only have 14 FFs and rarely get more than 6 showing up, but what if next month 6 people want to join? It's happened. Now you're in for 6 SCBA and next year need 6 more, which isn't going to score well either given the next application is for "increasing the current inventory", about as low as you can go in scoring.

    Don't get me wrong, we've done a lot asking for both but mainly when it involves larger number of FFs, higher populations, higher calls, smaller per capita budgets, and both PPE and SCBA are over 20 years old. If you fit into the latter, could be possible, but given the past few years not likely since very few are being funded for multiple item requests that aren't related like PPE and SCBA. If you can't make a year more with 1 of them, but can with the other then the other is your project for this go-round. It's better to hit 1 thing than swing for 2 and miss because now your next application is for only 1 thing and you're a year behind. If you just go PPE or SCBA and don't get funded you weren't getting both for sure.
    Brian P. Vickers
    CEO - Vickers Consulting Services, Inc
    FH.com/Firehouse Mag Contributor
    www.helpmewithgrants.com
    www.facebook.com/vcsinc

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    • #3
      Brian is 100% right. I have hit several that had 2 different request. As the years have pasted and the money through AFG has decreased, I have found and I'm sure Brian , Sly and Kurt would agree that AFG don't want to see a grocery list. They know you need several things BUT what do you need the MOST. Like Brian said hit 1 and then go for the next priority next year. Jeff
      If God be for us, who can be against us. Jesus said, I am the way the truth and the light.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by BC79er View Post
        In your case there's the other issues of why only you're only asking for 6 SCBA that has to be answered, since NFPA 1710/20 as well as OSHA require 12 SCBA at a minimum in order to achieve 2in/2out. If you have no other SCBA then you're not asking for enough to become compliant, which requires an explanation on why not and that may not score well either. Certainly you could go down the route of you only have 14 FFs and rarely get more than 6 showing up, but what if next month 6 people want to join? It's happened. Now you're in for 6 SCBA and next year need 6 more, which isn't going to score well either given the next application is for "increasing the current inventory", about as low as you can go in scoring.
        Perhaps I'm confused but why are 12FFs needed to meet 2in/2out rule? I need approx 10 bail out kits to comply with NYS bail out laws. And wondering if I should be asking for 12 and if so why...

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        • #5
          Look in the definitions at the NFPA 1710-1720 and OSHA to see what they require in the 2 in/out rule. I think this will clarify what your needing to know. Being or going to be NFPA compliant is a BIG plus while applying for funding. Jeff
          If God be for us, who can be against us. Jesus said, I am the way the truth and the light.

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          • #6
            You need to accomplish 2 interior crews plus RIT makes 6, then you need a backup for each crew which makes another 6. Can't do that without 12 packs.

            Also parlays into first alarm staffing of 15, subtracting 1 IC and 2 D/Os, or IC, Safety, and D/O. Something like that, depends on your department SOGs.

            Slice it how you like, can't have fewer than 12 packs and meet deployment. Only time we've asked for less is if the department was tight on matching money and we could say they never had more than ## FFs on scene at once based on their past call history, and relied heavily on mutual aid for a full initial alarm staffing of 12. Otherwise 12 functioning packs is the minimum after the grant is funded.
            Brian P. Vickers
            CEO - Vickers Consulting Services, Inc
            FH.com/Firehouse Mag Contributor
            www.helpmewithgrants.com
            www.facebook.com/vcsinc

            Comment

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