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  • brush truck question

    I talked with our grant writer today about this years afg grants. After reviewing last years grants he believes we should put in for a brush truck with this years rounds but i cant seem to find online what fema classifies as a brush truck. any and all help would be greatly appreciated.


    thanks
    JD

  • #2
    Well.........

    I can't give you an answer without knowing more about your area. There is no "Hard and Fast" standard Brush Truck. What works great for me in central Maryland may not be useful in Iowa or California.... Tell us a bit about your situation, we'll find something for you.....
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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    • #3
      were mostly a rural department in upstate ny averaging 400 calls a year. currently we handle brush fires with indian tanks and hand tools. does fema look for any vehicle that is outfitted for brush fires and off-road capabilities or are there some guidelines they want followed to apply for a apparatus grant.

      im sorry i cant be much help, i know what im asking isnt easy to understand


      JD

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      • #4
        im basically asking what the definition of a brush truck is and if its the small utility type trucks or do the larger 4x4 apparatus count as well


        hopefully this helps a little more

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        • #5
          A lot depends on what you currently have in your fleet, what your call volume is, and the number of brush/ woods fires you respond to every year. These are all info the computer scores your application on. someone with many brush fires that consume hundreds or thousands of acres will score much higher than someone with a couple of small grass fire per year. These are all questions asked in the application.

          AFG does not have a specific definition of what constitutes a "brush truck".

          The general answer is a small nimble quick attack vehicle with a small water tank & pump. Could be a half ton pickup with a small skid unit or an F550 with 300 gallons of water and a diesel powered CAFS system in the back.

          The generally recognized funding level for the past several years for brush trucks has been $125 k. The best bet for you is to read the program guidance carefully to understand what the AFG is placing as priority 1 vehicles in their scoring matrix when they release it.
          Last edited by islandfire03; 02-15-2011, 11:07 PM.

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          • #6
            Type 5-6 wildlands engine as defined by National Wildfire Coordinating Group are what everyone typically thinks of as a brush truck. Sometimes there are places where type 3-4 are more common. The Fireline Handbook Appendix A p.A-40 has a chart of the minimum requirements for the different classes of truck. You can download a copy @ http://www.nwcg.gov/pms/pubs/large.html. If I remember right, the NWCG also publishes a Water Handling Equipment Guide with examples of each type of engine, complete with contact information on who owns each piece. Another great place to look for ideas on how to construct wildlands equipment is http://www.roscommonequipmentcenter.com/. They publish guides on how to build trucks from scratch, specializing in converting surplus military equipment.

            Most State forestry departments/DNR have programs that "loan out" surplus military trucks like CUCVs and M35s, but the receiving department is responsible for converting and maintaining the vehicle for firefighting service. The loan is for as long as the department needs the vehicle, but it must be returned once it is no longer needed. Around here a lot of departments will get a CUCVs and mount the tank, pump, lights, and siren to a flatbed. When the vehicle is worn out about five-ten years later, they take the flatbed off and exchange the vehicle for another one. All they have to do is mount the flatbed to the "new" truck and tune the suspension for the new load and they're ready to fight fire. This information won't really help you with AFG, but it gives you some ideas on how to get a truck for dealing with brush and grass fires.

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            • #7
              They've changed how the military surplus works in Oklahoma. When you get the vehicle, you must paint it, and put all the equipment on it. Once you show that it's ready to be put in service, they send you the title, and the dept now owns the vehicle.

              Matt
              Last edited by GhostRider73; 02-16-2011, 05:34 PM. Reason: stupid spelling mistake

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              • #8
                Where in upstate are you? I would start by checking out what the local DEC Rangers are using. Granted, they have to drive around all day in those trucks so that might affect the design.

                From my days doing grass fires back in central NY, the Type 6 trucks would seem most appropriate. There are a lot of variation in Type 6 engines though. I can send you pictures of what we use which are pretty similar to what the USFS and BLM use. Lot's of departments out here build their own now using the F550 flat-bed chassis, a skid mount pump and tank unit and off the rack compartments and cages. The grant might not fund that type of project though.

                Some of the CNY (Chenango County) DEC Rangers I knew when I lived back there were nationally red carded and worked on fires around the country. They might have some good ideas on what they think would work best for your area. If you run on logging roads, the needs are different than hardwood leaf fires or cow pastures.

                Jm2c

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                • #9
                  Last I knew brush trucks were a low priority unless you could demonstrate a significant structural threat from wildland fires.

                  However, that was several years ago and the priority might have changed.

                  That being said, without knowing a little more about you giving you advice is difficult.

                  I spent many years in northwestern Vermont, which is similar terrain. While we did have a brush truck, as you stated, most of the wildland firefighting was with hand tools and back pumps, and unless it was a fairly open, grassy area, the brush truck was rarely used.

                  I think that in and of itself will make a brush truck a hard road to hoe.

                  To me, you would be looking at a single rear wheel 3/4 ton with probably 100-150 gallons of water. If your area was like my area of VT, anything larger has minimal value.

                  My department in that area had a 1/2 ton surplus military unit with a 125 gallon tank. A few years before I left to come south, we replaced it with a crew cab Dodge with a utility body and a 225 gallon tank. The truck couldn't go half the places as the old military surplus and got stuck twice as much. It sounds like you need something small, simple and tough. Just a basic brush truck.
                  Train to fight the fires you fight.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by GhostRider73 View Post
                    They've changed how the military surplus works in Oklahoma. When you get the vehicle, you must paint it, and put all the equipment on it. Once you show that it's ready to be put in service, they send you the title, and the dept now owns the vehicle.

                    Matt
                    FFP is a "new" spin on DOD surplus where you get title. The old FEPP (loan) program still exists. Not all states are using FFP. And unfortunately some states are not even using FEPP. LOTS of great DOD (and GSA) equipment that FD can use is not reutilized.

                    You want help with a fire grant get on over to the grant section. Read the archieves and then you'll find lots of assistance. Next cycle starts soon and you're already behind the 8 ball is you haven't started.

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                    • #11
                      Be sure that your region is not doing what ours is; our region is redirecting funding and prioritizing firefighter safety and training due to the lack of funds through the legislation for the next physical year. I would hate to see you spend a lot of time on a project to see it not funded under these conditions and miss a chance to have funding on other projects that may assist you in other areas of need.

                      We were granted funding through our State Forest Service in 2009 for a $106,000.00 grant for a brush truck. Of course you will have to follow guide lines to the entity that funds your project. I found that the State and local funding is readily available for projects such as yours, this ups your chance of getting what you need in your area and leaves other funding open for other projects that would be easy funded through federal monies such as AFG funding.

                      As far as your initial question no I can not help you, follow your state guidelines and see if that gets you where you need to be.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by neiowa View Post
                        FFP is a "new" spin on DOD surplus where you get title. The old FEPP (loan) program still exists. Not all states are using FFP. And unfortunately some states are not even using FEPP. LOTS of great DOD (and GSA) equipment that FD can use is not reutilized.

                        You want help with a fire grant get on over to the grant section. Read the archieves and then you'll find lots of assistance. Next cycle starts soon and you're already behind the 8 ball is you haven't started.
                        ummmm, this is the grant section.

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                        • #13
                          Brush Truck Grant Example

                          Hello,

                          I am a volunteer grant writer for a small volunteer fire department in Ohio. Does anyone have an example of a successful grant award for a brush truck they would be willing to share?

                          Thanks,
                          Simbam

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Simbam View Post
                            Hello,

                            I am a volunteer grant writer for a small volunteer fire department in Ohio. Does anyone have an example of a successful grant award for a brush truck they would be willing to share?

                            Thanks,
                            Simbam
                            Send me an email through my profile and I'll send you a copy.

                            Comment

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