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  • Increase in Grant Happened

    Hey everyone,

    Just wanted to let you in on an odd occurance,

    we got our prelim 10Q for a vehicle (vacu-tender) this year (2 days ago actually), and the price we asked for was reduced by almost 1/3. To the point, we could not get the vehicle we were asking for within the grant without paying an additional 50-70K on our own, which is almost our entire years budget.

    I called our grant adviser (person on the letter), and talked with them, explaining we based our price on a vendor cost of our spec with a fudge factor built in to include a 2011 price increase. She said she just handles the admin, not the pricing, there is a whole different group that evaluates for proper pricing. She gave me the number to call for the person she deals with..

    I called and talked with a guy (don't remember the name of the office he worked for (which department in grants).. but he said the prices are based off of what you ask for. He said a tanker is a tanker, vacu- or otherwise unless in your narrative you can show why you need vacu that the regular NFPA would NOT be able to meet or handle.

    While we were talking, I was asking him, since the price is reduced, how much can we deviate from the grant "spec" before we "failed" the grant. if we take the fire pump off, reduce tank size or remove the vacu- bit, would that cause them to call foul, to get within the price range they asked for..

    I never did get an answer for that particular item, but when I mentioned tank size he looked, and stated because we asked for a specific tank size that required a tandem axle chassis, he was able to increase the allowed amount. He would re-send the info to our grant manager who should resend the amended 10Q..

    Basically we were given a 200K (190 Fed, 10 Ours) and with a couple of phone calls and a discussion, look like we are being bumped up to the 275K level..

    I brought this for 3 reasons..

    1. they use a price basis, off of the last few years for each type of vehicle. regardless of true options (foam, etc).. single axle tender appears to be 200K

    2. Double axle tender appears to be 275K

    3. With talk, you might be able to (however inadvertently) give them information that was overlooked in why the reduction should not have occurred. while it is not actually negotiation, it does mean the letter saying you lose 1/3 of asking, does not have to be the final word....



    (Note: Kind of an advertisement)
    Wanted to thank BC79er, for his services, while we did not use him this go around, just seeing the detail of the grantwork he does is amazing, and gives you alot of information that you would have never thought of. So Kudo's to Brian and his staff.. Also, if you ever have the chance to get to one of his seminars, do it.. the info he imparts with these far exceeds the FEMA seminars (should go to those too of course, more info is better), but BC, gives more realism in his, not the pie-in-the-sky type of stuff that FEMA likes, and you can ask him more specific grant related questions that FEMA is not willing to usually commit on.

  • #2
    $200K was the reduced award. $275K was the re-adjusted award. Was this the proposed amount in your application?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Wolf8552 View Post
      $200K was the reduced award. $275K was the re-adjusted award. Was this the proposed amount in your application?
      We actually asked for 290K with a bit of fudge factor, and then they dropped it to 200K, then I made a couple of calls, and got it upgraded to 275.. It appears they accidently figured we were asking for a single axle tender, when, because of the size of the tank, realized it was tandem, it put it at a different price...

      so basicly, there was an error, and my questions cause them to realize the mistake and fixed it.

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      • #4
        You're in good shape then. A Watermaster IH7400 w/3000gal & 1250gpm midship (which AFG won't allow on a "normal" tanker) will run you a bit under $250k.

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        • #5
          With those specs it would be a pumper and would default the grant award for a tanker, pumps have to be 750gpm and under on tankers. Both current fleet and proposed vehicle.
          Brian P. Vickers
          CEO - Vickers Consulting Services, Inc
          FH.com/Firehouse Mag Contributor
          www.helpmewithgrants.com
          www.facebook.com/vcsinc

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by BC79er View Post
            With those specs it would be a pumper and would default the grant award for a tanker, pumps have to be 750gpm and under on tankers. Both current fleet and proposed vehicle.
            Isn't it got to be under a 750gpm? Meaning a 749 and below? or have I been misunderstanding this all along.

            Why does that 1gpm mean so much?
            Last edited by MIDWESTCHIEF; 01-11-2011, 05:48 PM. Reason: add another question

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            • #7
              750 can be either the way it's written, 751 is definitely a pumper. They may have changed it recently to correct the ambiguity of the Guidelines but 750 and smaller is still tanker range. They've been letting it go at least, main goal was to stop people from asking for a tanker and then dropping a 1500gpm pump on it since they weren't competitive for a pumper flat out. But they still realize a decent pump comes in handy so 750 was the line drawn, however wide and gray the line is...
              Brian P. Vickers
              CEO - Vickers Consulting Services, Inc
              FH.com/Firehouse Mag Contributor
              www.helpmewithgrants.com
              www.facebook.com/vcsinc

              Comment


              • #8
                For most pumps the housing for a 750 & a 1000 gpm pump is the same. All depends on the intakes and discharges. when we were shopping pumps the cost is the same for either pump , just a difference in pre-piped manifold.

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