Pagers with AFG Grant???

[koechler]

Does anybody know if it will be possible to get AFG grant money for pagers?

I found the following:

"In regard to communications, all digital equipment will be (a) P25 capable and/or (b) subject to compliance with SAFECOM standards. As a senior executive from a major manufacturer stated, there are some “cracks in the door” (i.e. the possibility of applying for equipment that can be upgraded to P25, or a plan to certify interoperability with the State Plan). In reality, it will cost you more to “upgrade” than it would to purchase approved P25 equipment. State DHS offices cannot draft policy and/or guidance for federally administered grant programs including the FEMA Assistance to Firefighters grant."

I guess this only applies to digital equipment, right? So we should be fine applying for analog pagers especially with the narrowband switch in mind.

[LVFD301]

Pagers are fine. This about digital is trying to stop the people who would buy non- P25 digital radios such as Trbo and IDAS cause of a slick salesmen who has no concerns about the safety of your firefighters.

[ktb9780]

If you can't muster the troops, how can they fight the fire?DHS udnerstands that; pagers are in for AFG!

[koechler]

Ok, got ya. This restriction only applies to radios. Thanks for your help guys.

[nmfire]

Ok, got ya. This restriction only applies to radios. Thanks for your help guys.

It only applies to DIGITAL radios. You can still buy analog radios too. They're just saying that if you are buying digital radios, you have to buy P25 compliant digital radios. And any radio purchase must fall in line with your state's communication plan.

As has been said, pagers is non of the above and are ok.

[cubachief502]

So many are not buying the P25 equipment and are being led astray by the mother M sales team. I wonder what, if anything, will ever come of it.

The sad thing is the fact that the departments trust the sales team and don't beleive they are doing anything wrong.

[nmfire]

So many are not buying the P25 equipment and are being led astray by the mother M sales team. I wonder what, if anything, will ever come of it.

The sad thing is the fact that the departments trust the sales team and don't beleive they are doing anything wrong.

Huh? You're saying people should be buying P25 equipment that they don't need?

[hopalong]

The real reason for purchasing P25

Although I don't normally participate in forum discussions, I felt that a little clarification might be in order for the real reason to purchase P25 equipment. It isn't about making you purchase equipment you don't need. DHS says you can buy anything you wish, but only under certain conditions if you want federal grant money.

The reason for stipulating P25 is the need for INTEROPERABILITY! It isn't about individual opinions, departmental resources, or misrepresentation of facts by suppliers (whether purposeful or in error).

You may want to check out http://falconinfo.blogspot.com/2010/...ing-wrong.html for additional information.

[islandfire03]

Although I don't normally participate in forum discussions, I felt that a little clarification might be in order for the real reason to purchase P25 equipment. It isn't about making you purchase equipment you don't need. DHS says you can buy anything you wish, but only under certain conditions if you want federal grant money.

The reason for stipulating P25 is the need for INTEROPERABILITY! It isn't about individual opinions, departmental resources, or misrepresentation of facts by suppliers (whether purposeful or in error).

You may want to check out http://falconinfo.blogspot.com/2010/...ing-wrong.html for additional information.

The real reason for forcing people to buy into communications systems that we don't need is so that certain manufacturers can sell all new equipment to keep their chinese factories in production. That is not truly in the best interest of Firefighter safety. These digital systems are a technology that when it works well it's fine. Unfortunately most of the time they don't work well and cause more problems at triple the cost of an analog system.

[hopalong]

Reply to islandfire03

Let me restate what I said earlier. The reason for P25 is INTEROPERABILITY. It is NOT about Chinese manufacturing, greedy corporations, or even firefighter safety. It is all about INTEROPERABILITY!

As far as benefiting a particular manufacturer, which one exactly would that be? and do you have sales reports to validate your charge? Got to go now. I think I hear black helicopters overhead.....

[nmfire]

Horsefeathers. You have no idea what you're talking about. Please stop confusing people who actually look at these threads for help.

It has NOTHING to do with interoperability if nobody is using it. If nobody in your area uses it, you don't use it, your state's communication plan doesn't require it, and there is no added benefit, then there is no need to buy it. It is not a stipulation for federal grant money and never was (another lie started mostly by Motorola). Buying something labeled P25 ads nothing to interoperability if there is nobody to interoperate with. This comprises probably 90% of the country.

For those who have an actual need to build out a digital trunking system, they're using P25 as the standard for consitency and interoperability between digital systems. If you and everyone else around you doesn't have a digital system, then it is irrelevent.

You are doing exactly what the Motorola snake oil salesmen do. Tell people they need P25 equipment for interoperability that doesn't exist. Swindling hundreds of thousands of dollars out of municipalities that don't know any better at the cost of us taxpayers. There are enough of them running around already, we don't you on here telling people the same lies.

[cubachief502]

The problem here is the fact that the rules state that you must buy P25. I didn't need P25, but you better bet your bottom dollar that I purchased equipment that would function in digital and P25 mode. Sure... We still run analogue, but we obeyed the rules of the program and didn't pay a huge amount for the equipment that we purchased. The problem that started the discussion and the comment I made is not whether or not P25 is required. The comments related to dealers that try to sweet talk departments into purchasing something that is proprietary (such as turbo) and painting them into a corner. That is where the rub is and that is the problem...

[nmfire]

There is no such federal rule. THey defer to your state's communication plan for that. If your state is stupid and requires it even if you only need the analog functions, that sucks. But it isn't a federal requirement to do that.

[cubachief502]

If you buy digital... It is to be P25. If you prefer to buy anything else state that in your narrative.

[islandfire03]

Let me restate what I said earlier. The reason for P25 is INTEROPERABILITY. It is NOT about Chinese manufacturing, greedy corporations, or even firefighter safety. It is all about INTEROPERABILITY!

As far as benefiting a particular manufacturer, which one exactly would that be? and do you have sales reports to validate your charge? Got to go now. I think I hear black helicopters overhead.....

The only agencies within 100 miles of us that are using P-25 digital is the Coast guard & one big city. The BIG city has had nothing but problems since they made the switch and has spent double the initial purchase price getting the bugs worked out of the system. No other public safety agencies have made the expensive switch and won't be in the foreseeable future as the state communications guru admits we don't have the infrastructure to make it work.

We were awarded AFG $$ in 2007 for new radios and comm gear. It did not require us to buy digital p-25 equipment per our states communications plan.

Yes in some areas of the country bureaucrats that wouldn't recognize a radio if it was inserted into their rectal cavities have bought into the snake oil salesmen"s lies and forced departments to spend huge amounts of $$$$ to buy equipment they will never need All in the buzz word of interoperability. In many cases they are less able to interoperate now than they were before.

There is one specific manufacturer that has it's sales puke promoting their proprietary system designs as the only solution , when in reality it make their systems less interoperable.
Don't spout off on things you don't understand