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Why is local 215 doing this?

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  • Why is local 215 doing this?

    It is well known in the State of Wisconsin that Local 215 Milwaukee Fire Department supported Scott Walker during his run for govenor.

    What may not be so well known NOW is that Local 215 is contributing money to the Republican State senators who are being recalled. These include Scott Fitzgerald R-Juneau, Van Wanggaard R-Racine, Terry Moulton R-Cihppewa Falls, and Pam Gallowy R-Wausau. They have also donated $3000 to Glenn Grothman R-West Bend.

    What possible motive could they have for this? Not a single one of these Republicans serve Milwaukee. Why would they support candidates that are opposed to, and in fact voted against, collective bargaining? These same candidates have voted in favor of measures that have hurt public employees. It is BRUTALLY obvious these Republicans are anti-labor and will do what ever they can to destroy organized labor and the rights fought so had to win.

    Something just isn't right here and if you look closely at the facts you will see it too.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  • #2
    I'm surprised WI allows campaign contributions from Locals at all. You'd have to create a seperate PAC to do that in CT. I'd be looking at whoever controls the Local's purse strings.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
    sigpic
    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

    Comment


    • #3
      I am sure that whatever money they are donating is done in accorrdance with the law. That isn't my issue at all with this. Why would a UNION support a governor and Republican Senators that have an obvious anti-Union agenda? It makes no sense.

      My local has a conduit where we have agreed to have an ADDITIONAL payroll deduction go towards for political causes. They can't spend a penny of MY money without my consent.
      Crazy, but that's how it goes
      Millions of people living as foes
      Maybe it's not too late
      To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm going with Stockholm Syndrome.
        They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

        I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

        Comment


        • #5
          Since you have all the answers FyredUp, why don't you tell us?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
            I'm going with Stockholm Syndrome.

            Enjoying all that reefer in your retirement?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
              I'm surprised WI allows campaign contributions from Locals at all. You'd have to create a seperate PAC to do that in CT. I'd be looking at whoever controls the Local's purse strings.

              Locals donate to candidates of all types in Wisconsin. I'm not going to look the laws up, as I really don't care. Beside the point, the labor attorney we pay takes care of the legal stuff.
              We vote with great regularity to donate money to local and state level candidates. It is done with an open vote on the floor. It has been this way since I have been a member. We also receive an annual statement from the local on how much of our dues are not tax-deductible, due to political action.

              So, look as deeply as you wish. My guess is that there are plenty of other locals donating far greater sums of money to political candidates, as well as doing campaign work on the public's time and dime. Of course though, that wouldn't be as good of a story.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jasper 45 View Post
                Since you have all the answers FyredUp, why don't you tell us?
                I don't have all the answers and in fact my post is entirely questioning why a UNION would support such completely anti-Union candidates.

                I would hope that instead of a sarcastic non-answer you might choose to try and explain why. Funny thing is you are getting all ****ed off about being questioned, and chose to go that route, instead of explaining what appears ludicrous to any other Union member.

                Frankly, I can't see a single thing your local has gained supporting Walker. So educate me on your local's strategy.
                Crazy, but that's how it goes
                Millions of people living as foes
                Maybe it's not too late
                To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
                  I don't have all the answers and in fact my post is entirely questioning why a UNION would support such completely anti-Union candidates.

                  I would hope that instead of a sarcastic non-answer you might choose to try and explain why. Funny thing is you are getting all ****ed off about being questioned, and chose to go that route, instead of explaining what appears ludicrous to any other Union member.

                  Frankly, I can't see a single thing your local has gained supporting Walker. So educate me on your local's strategy.
                  Who is getting ****ed off? This style of posting seems to be a tactic you've resorted to recently. You launch a post, in this case a thread, laced with venom and insinuations, and then you wonder why you get a sarcastic response; weird.

                  I can't speak for the local as I don't represent them. All I can say is that the vote to endorse the Governor both times, was taken on the floor and passed by our vote, as a local. If you want to talk about my personal views on why I voted to support the Governor, that is another matter entirely and has nothing to do with local 215.

                  I am hardly upset. I went sarcastic because of your attacking manner in which you started this thread. Given the state of politics in Wisconsin I shouldn't be surprised.


                  However, until you can explain why YOUR union, the PFFW, would endorse and support a candidate for governor who has already slashed 300 firefighting positions and continues to do so today, I don't feel a need to justify anything to anybody.

                  In fact, there is a little topic we can all chat about. That topic can be firefighter unions supporting candidates who cut firefighters. Or, how about firefighters unions supporting the placing of volunteers into our (IAFF) engine houses, and how some of those rigs had IAFF members riding them. That might be a great conversation to have, since you brought politics up.

                  Save the 'ole "I'm just trying to figure it out" game, too. If all you wanted to do was hear what was going on, there are a multitude of ways you could have contacted me -privately- like a phone call, rather than trying to stir up a sh*t storm, publicly.
                  Last edited by Jasper 45; 03-11-2012, 06:48 PM. Reason: additional info

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Unions shouldn't be allowed to use dues at all to support politicians...

                    I'm down with that.
                    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

                    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

                    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jasper 45 View Post
                      Who is getting ****ed off? This style of posting seems to be a tactic you've resorted to recently. You launch a post, in this case a thread, laced with venom and insinuations, and then you wonder why you get a sarcastic response; weird.

                      Really? Show me those topics. Thee was no venom at all in my original post. Unless the truth about supporting anti-Union/anti-Labor/Big Business, Scott Walker is considered venom. I suppose pointing out that your Union supports the rest of the recall headed Republican Senators is venom too?

                      I can't speak for the local as I don't represent them. All I can say is that the vote to endorse the Governor both times, was taken on the floor and passed by our vote, as a local. If you want to talk about my personal views on why I voted to support the Governor, that is another matter entirely and has nothing to do with local 215.


                      I didn't ask YOU to speak to anything. I posted a general topic with facts and followed that up with some questions.


                      I am hardly upset. I went sarcastic because of your attacking manner in which you started this thread. Given the state of politics in Wisconsin I shouldn't be surprised.

                      Oh, you are upset alright, that is CRYSTAL clear. There was not one hint of sarcasm in my original post. It was very direct and very clear.

                      However, until you can explain why YOUR union, the PFFW, would endorse and support a candidate for governor who has already slashed 300 firefighting positions and continues to do so today, I don't feel a need to justify anything to anybody.

                      I am realtively certain that Barret, while not much better than Walker, would not have attacked the very foundation of the labor movement by destroying collective bargaining for public workers. I have no doubts that he will eventually turn on fire and police like he has the rest. Municipalities hve already started lobbying the govenor for that change. Frankly, I would absolutely love for you to try and justify supporting walker and his cronies, but I know you won't, so the point is moot.

                      In fact, there is a little topic we can all chat about. That topic can be firefighter unions supporting candidates who cut firefighters. Or, how about firefighters unions supporting the placing of volunteers into our (IAFF) engine houses, and how some of those rigs had IAFF members riding them. That might be a great conversation to have, since you brought politics up.

                      Get over it, it happens all over the country that volunteers and paid on call firefighters are called in to help career firefighters fight large fires or back fill stations. Even the FDNY works with 7 volly companies in the city. Plenty of FDNY members are vollies where they live too. Until the IAFF adresses its members riding private ambulances, that take far more jobs than volunteers do, it is nothing but smoke and mirrors. Further, volunteers have had not one single thing to do with the current state of staffing in Milwaukee as up until the last year or so you guys offered no mutual aid unless you got paid for it, and received none either. Your cuts, or the vast majority of them, occured long before the volunteers sat in your houses.

                      Save the 'ole "I'm just trying to figure it out" game, too. If all you wanted to do was hear what was going on, there are a multitude of ways you could have contacted me -privately- like a phone call, rather than trying to stir up a sh*t storm, publicly.

                      I stirred up nothing. I posted FACTS, and you don't like that I did that. Explain why your Union supports anti-labor candidates, if you can. Because you said nothing here except how upset you are at me for pointing it out publicly.
                      You are still a Brother Firefighter, despite our differing views, and i hold no personal anomosity towards you. I wish you a long, safe, and healthy career.
                      Crazy, but that's how it goes
                      Millions of people living as foes
                      Maybe it's not too late
                      To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                        Unions shouldn't be allowed to use dues at all to support politicians...

                        I'm down with that.
                        In our case dues don't support politicians. We have a seperate additional amount taken out of our checks by the Union. It is put into a seperate account that WE control individually. The individual firefighter decides what politicians the money gets spent on.
                        Crazy, but that's how it goes
                        Millions of people living as foes
                        Maybe it's not too late
                        To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                          Unions shouldn't be allowed to use dues at all to support politicians...

                          I'm down with that.


                          Union dues can not be used for political candidates. Dues go towards the cost of operations for the local, stipends for elected union officers, costs for education etc, but dues are not going to political candidates.

                          Jasper is correct that the body would decide to endorse a political candidate or not, and that is all it is. For money to go to a candidate, it has to come from a PAC or conduit and must be reported and so forth. Along that line, is that names have to be included of those who do choose to give to a candidate. Now most union locals already have a PAC or conduit set up and money can be directly deducted from a paycheck to go into such a PAC/conduit (hence I'm sure the annual statement referred to).

                          In order for the money to be used, the member has to give expressed consent for a PAC. So say a member has $5/check go to PAC and come election time the union wants to spend money on a candidate and they want to use say $100 from the member, the person in charge of the PAC must call the member and request permission to use the money. If consent isn't given, then the money can't be spent.

                          A conduit is a bit different, so say you had a 50/50 raffle at your meeting for $1/ticket and half winnings go to the conduit and half to the winner. The money going to the conduit can be used for political purposes without having express permission granted.

                          Another aspect is if a member contributes to a PAC and chooses to spend money on a different candidate, or to a candidate outside the area. They can request the money from the PAC and thus write a personal check. The caveat being is the individual member needs to have the amount in their own account.

                          Overall there are rules and regulations on all the specifics of what can and can't be done, max donations to candidates, max amount for office being run for etc. However, the use of dues can't go towards candidates because it is not about majority consent of the members present. The local can choose to endorse a candidate and thus PAC/conduit money can be donated, the local can help with lit drops, making calls etc, however, that is up to personal members and is done on one's free time.



                          Where dues CAN be used for political type of purposes is for supporting a referendum, measure, etc, where it is NOT about supporting a candidate. So for Milwaukee, a good example would be the city proposing staffing cuts. Dues can be used to fight such battles, to spend money for literature, ads in the media, etc. This is something that Sheboygan FF's did in support of a referendum to keep their EMS which was on the chopping block.

                          I know this is long, but the gist is dues can't be used to support politicians as alluded.
                          Last edited by jccrabby3084; 03-11-2012, 09:42 PM.
                          The thoughts and opinions posted here are mine and mine alone and do not reflect the thoughts and or views of city or dept affiliation.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
                            You are still a Brother Firefighter, despite our differing views, and i hold no personal anomosity towards you. I wish you a long, safe, and healthy career.

                            The feeling is likewise.


                            I'm not going to fish thru your post to address each point because I don't want to take the time.
                            I'm not ****ed and you threw no facts out. You threw out some opinions and were looking to get another sh*t storm rolling; we've been seeing a lot of that from other firefighters throughout the state and even at the memorial in Colorado Springs. So please, pardon me if I don't see your 'innocence" in your just asking questions.

                            The whole point about the vollies in our houses was just that, a point. You know my feeling on the topic and you echoed it with your reference to the privates; that is a huge problem, watch it grow in the next few months.
                            The reason I brought it up is your mix and match with the whole "union brotherhood" mantra. I have to ask, since you're so in to union "rights"; were you in Madison the other day, when the AFL-CIO needed "brothers" and "sisters" to help get the mining bill thru that would have provided thousands of good paying union jobs, or did you let those jobs run to Michigan out of spite? I'm pretty sure I know the answer to that. The politician(s) I support are trying to bring jobs to this state to help pay for our jobs. We need them here and your side just sent a whole bunch of them packing. At least they weren't union jobs, tho...oh, yeah-they were...

                            Look, you were the one who had all of these "facts" for us to see.

                            Something just isn't right here and if you look closely at the facts you will see it too.
                            Here's your quote; this is what this whole topic is about. Or, did you have something else on your mind? Like just a burning desire to throw some crap out there and let it stick? Personally, I'm thinking the latter. Especially after training some of your guys over the past few days. It's kind of odd that just out of the blue, over a year and a half into this whole mess we have, you go and decide to start a thread like this. That strikes me as more than just a bit odd.
                            So tell me, is this just a coincidence?


                            All I'm going to say is that if you don't know what the problem is in this state, stop pointing fingers and look in the mirror. We are, and I don't mean us in local 215. I mean all of us in the public sector We have taken too much for granted for far too long. Maybe not us specifically, but in general, segments of public employees have and continue to cause these problems on a day to day basis.
                            It isn't even worth the discussion anymore, especially over the internet where phrases and text are taken out of context routinely.

                            The only thing about this whole thread that ****es me off is you putting words in my mouth. I am not ****ed off, far from it. My life is great. Maybe if you would spend more time figuring out why the politicians have enacted the legislation they have, we could get back to where we were.

                            I am also completely comfortable with my decision to support this Governor and my local.

                            I'm trying to refrain from slamming other unions and other segments of the public work force here. I hold my opinions and they are well researched and thought out. If you want to discuss this at length give me a call, I'm more than happy to share my viewpoints.

                            I am a bit leery about this topic, particularly on forums as they heat up. I have family that works for other PFFW departments and some get togethers have been...interesting, to say the least. Honestly, it is getting tough to argue against the union "thug" image after some of these "interactions". Even with other public union workers and others in the International. I guess brotherhood disappears when opinions are not the same. Whatever.

                            I support Governor Walker. With the recall I get to vote for him a second time, legally. A lot of guys I work with support him, as well. Plenty of guys I work with in my unionized, part-time job support him too. In fact, I would be very eager to hear how you justify keeping special laws that give us more legal rights than the iron workers in local 8, or any of the other brewery worker locals or any of the other private sector union workers.
                            Last edited by Jasper 45; 03-11-2012, 10:49 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jasper 45 View Post
                              Enjoying all that reefer in your retirement?
                              No. Just good whiskey. What other explanation can there be for supporting those who would gut you like a tuna?
                              They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                              I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                              Comment

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