Why no requirement for state certification?

[GFPD2005]

Hey all,

Quick question.

Illinois has a pretty good repuation for being a progressive state for the fire service. So why is there no requirement for state certification for firefighters?

Police in Illinois have to be certified even reserve officers.

Some states like Florida require volunteers to have certification.

What is stopping Illinois from...
number one, becoming an IFSAC state
number two, requiring all firefighters to be state certified FF II at the least.

[ChiefReason]

My personal opinion is because the OSFM has been a revolving door since SFM Tom Armstead retired.
That aside, I think one of the reasons that more firefighters in Illinois aren't FF II certified is cost. On line is quicker, but costly. Time is another factor. Couple that with the fact that many would quit, because they will not or cannot give the commitment needed to become certified.
For the record, I took the time.
I'd be happy if they'd just require Essentials of Firefighting through the Cornerstone program at IFSI.
But, the reality is many departments are populated with older members who would get off if it became a requirement and new ones would hesitate to get on if they knew they had to take 240 hours to get certified.
CR

[drezqmn]

I became certified as a volunteer in FF in 2002 as a FF II. I then went career in cook county and then Lake County. Illinois has FF II and FF III but no FF I anymore. Also, last I checked, if you are setting foot inside a burning building you are supposed to be a FF II. Anything less and you risks major legal problems if somebody gets hurt or caught. I have now moved to Florida and am working career down here. Still miss up north, though. It was definitely interesting going through the academy down here. I will say that Illinois, by far, outdoes every state I've looked at when it comes to training for hazmat. Most states have hazmat awareness at 8 hours, not 24 like illinois. And the ops level for most states is 24 hours, not 40 hours. Hazmat in florida was a breeze going thru compared to Illinois.

[trainer]

I think CR summed it up, you tell a vol that he HAS to anything and you cut your numbers in half. And I've heard all the arguments, better to have half with all the training, then to have a full roster. Any dummy can hold a hose, with a little training can get the water out of the truck, not everyone has to packup and enter. Out here in the sticks it's a numbers think, if you ain't got them, nothing's going to happen. Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for mandatory training, and would love to see required FFII. My years in the fire service have told me, the best FF is 30 something, married with kids and a mortgage. Now ask him to spend six weeks away from home, or take a 240hr class, some will some won't, some will exceed the needed training. Your only hope is that when the tones drop, that you have enough trained personal, plus extra people to get the job done, That's what dept's out here in the middle of nowhere face every day. As far as I know, the only thing required to be a FF is hazmat awareness and bloodborn pathogens. I also think they need to make the 24hrs of annual suggested training, mandatory.

[jaybird210]

Boy, there's still a lot of misinformation out there.

Illinois hazmat awareness is 8 hours. It's a required part of FFII.

Let me point out the the OSFM has no regulatory authority over the training of fire fighters. They set curriculum, and will certify people who meet the requirements of that curriculum, but it's the Department of Labor has has the weight of law for training. The Department of Labor REQUIRES the following:

Quarterly interior firefighter training.
Quarterly SCBA training.
Annual fit testing and medical evaluation.
8 Hours of driver training.
Bloodborne pathogen training.
Special Hazard training (Confined space, trench, vertical)
8 Hours hazmat refresher for anyone ops level or higher.

Do all of us little guys meet these requirements? Some, but not all. We try, but it takes every bit of 30 hours to meet these minimums, and the only way our people get this done, is to attended EVERY ONE of the monthly trainings. Miss one, and we'll catch you next time. To get proficient, obviously, you need more than this....

[trainer]

Thanks Jay, I had forgetting about a couple of those. On the Annual fit testing and medical evaluation, the way I read it: you do it once, unless something changes, at least the medical but I think your right on the fit test. It's my understanding that everyone needs an 8hr hazmat awareness, plus a 4hr refresher annually. Question on the Special Hazard training, is that a one time deal? And I was referring to IDOL. I try to get everything done in one year, just wish they would make a year 24 months long.

[jaybird210]

Larry, I was originally under the impression that the fit test and medical eval was once, then repeated only if you had major change (significant weight gain or loss, dental work, etc), but after re-reading the Federal Register, it is an annual thing regardless. The Federal Register Final Rule was published January 8, 1998, Volume 63 No.5. Here's the first page: http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...=all&page=1270
I was going to try to post a link to the whole thing, but I could not get the feds search engine to find anything but one page at a time.

Another thing I discovered last year is that those of us who are using the Qualitative Fit Test (that's the stinky kind, using either Bitrex or banana oil, etc) are NOT following the law; because we wear a full face mask, we can ONLY use a Quantitative Fit Test (the one with the computer). That puts quite a bind on those of us who do not have our own fit test machine. We are fortunate in that our MABAS division owns a couple of fit test machines, so we do the fit test, medical eval, and a consumption drill in one night. Plus that counts as one quarterly SCBA training!

The special hazard training is annual; it need consist only of reminding your personnel how to handle those calls. Basically it's a just an SOG review. For us, that's kinda easy, we cover all of them in about an hour. Secure the area, get information, call the appropriate box alarm to get the trained and equipped teams in here.

As for hazmat, if you read the law directly, if I remember correctly (it's been a long time since I've seen the text), we aren't even supposed to respond if your crew isn't trained to the operations level. Obviously, that's not practical for most of us. We generally include a hazmat refresher when we do our special hazards. It ain't four hours, but it's an effort.

[jboczek]

I didn't read the federal register yet, I will, but I was told by an IDOL rep that the fit test is annual, but the medical evaluation was done initially and need only be repeated if there was a reason for it. My biggest problem has been finding out who can do the evaluation - an EMT, Paramedic, RN, Doctor? Anybody been told the answer to that question?

[GFPD2005]

Good replies

I know that IDOL regulates Illinois Fire Departments but I didnt know about those specific requirements. Can anyone provide me the link that states what IDOL requires? I came up empty on the IDOL website.

I would like my department to require FF II but maybe I should first look at the stuff that IS mandatory.

[80FIRE]

There is no “IDOL for Dummies” manual out there.
They don’t want it that simple so they can give you the royal run around and allow each inspector to interpret the rules as they see fit. You will not get a clear cut simple answer from IDOL, just a stack of confusing regulations. You can request a site visit to review your department and they will not make any citations and give you a certain amount of time to correct any problems.

I have been through a IDOL inspection and they are more than happy to point out what you are doing wrong but refused to give advice on how to correct the problems. They were more interested in seeing the documents on how we did the training than they were on seeing that we actually done it.

As you can tell they are not my favorite branch of IL. Government.

[trainer]

A big 10-4 on the not my favorite branch Les. We had a rep come to talk to our group, WIFA, and all he could do was laugh and tell jokes, took all of 5 min to tell this sheet was not funny. Jay, I won't argue, but I'm only going to do what our local rep tell's us we need to do, and that was a one time thing on the medical, we can't afford that every year. It can be done by nurses, paramedics, or even emt's, but it has to be signed off by a doctor. And yes everything about them is paperwork. Every MABAS divison or zone, has a fit test machine, these things are slick.