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  • Adze39
    replied
    Originally posted by KeithA8
    ADZE39,
    You're right!
    Keith, I promise I won't let you saying that go to my head! LOL

    Leave a comment:


  • KeithA8
    replied
    ADZE39,
    You're right!

    Leave a comment:


  • Adze39
    replied
    Originally posted by KeithA8
    Our dept has had this for years, yet no other town is campaigning against us.
    That is probably because when that stipulation was added to the WH contract, it didn't receive as much media attention as Hartford's. It might also have to do with the overall number of FF's. But I'm willing to bet that if it wasn't covered in the papers and such, that these town managers and mayors wouldn't give two thoughts about it.

    Leave a comment:


  • KeithA8
    replied
    InandUp : Very well said! Unfortunately some people will never see this view. Our dept has had this for years, yet no other town is campaigning against us. The contract between Hartford and it's employees is no business of any other towns!

    Leave a comment:


  • fdny99
    replied
    I have found it extremely funny to see the politicians of the affected towns pleading their case in the papers. Do they not realize what they would do if the shoe was on the respective other foot. They would do the same thing Hartford did. When a firefighter gets hurt at a fire, and I can tell you this from 12 years of experience, 4 of which are with the busiest fire department in the US, they are in most cases injuries that keep a person out of work for a significant amount of time. The city of Hartford incurrs a overtime cost, as well as an insurance costs (they volunteer member is going to use his/her health insurance to pay bills) to fill the spot for the injured member. If these towns want to keep this luxury which they have, maybe they should be billed by the City of Hartford each and everytime this happens. I'm sure that then they would be more than willing to give up this luxury. And let us not forget, that the contract was voted on by the membership, who's makeup is the very people we are discussinng right now!

    Leave a comment:


  • TVFDT141
    replied
    We are loosing 2 members of Vernon's fire department.

    Our Asst Chief and a Captain.

    Its prolly only a matter of time before other departments follow suit.

    Leave a comment:


  • portable75afd
    replied
    Maybe this is a good thing. Maybe career ff's should stay out of volunteer fire service all together. I have found that it takes certain kind of person to wear a pager. We have had several to-be career as well as career guys and they just did not make the grain. This goes the same for career firefighters. I know I could not take the EMS part my dept's daily runs, which is done by the career members. This is causing tention between vol and career and career and career and so on.

    But in the long run it will hurt any relationship between these groups.

    Leave a comment:


  • Adze39
    replied
    Originally posted by CrossBro1
    The towns around Hartford that are crying about the contract are certainly capable of supporting a full-time fire department. If a town or city can afford to provide a full-time police force they can afford to provide a full-time fire service. These towns owe it to their citizens.
    Whatever...I hate getting into these arguments but that is just nonsense. Saying if they can pay police they can pay fire. I do agree, there are some towns around Hartford that can support full time FDs. However there are others that cannot. But what you are saying is that a town like East Windsor, who has 2 or 3 cops on duty per shift, can support to have a full time FD. They don't even have enough cops per shift to fill an engine if they were FFs.

    Leave a comment:


  • CrossBro1
    replied
    The towns around Hartford that are crying about the contract are certainly capable of supporting a full-time fire department. If a town or city can afford to provide a full-time police force they can afford to provide a full-time fire service. These towns owe it to their citizens.

    Leave a comment:


  • NHFD50
    replied
    Another Opinion

    Although I can see the significant impact that cities/towns are going to face as this date draws near, there is one thing I haven't seen anybody make mention of yet. How about further elaborating the comments made by someone concerning the IAFF prohibiting volunteering by union members. I strongly agree that union firefighters should not be volunteering fire supression duties in a town/city where a paid dept currently exsists, no matter what its size. In towns/cities where a paid dept doesn't exsist and one isn't practical (such as for low population communities)I don't see a problem from a union standpoint with union members volunteering fire suppression duties. From a financial stand point, I can understand a town or cities concern for injury causing overtime. From a health stand point that's something that each firefighter is jepordizing if he/she chooses to volunteer. Hey it's your family that's going to suffer when your hypertension claim gets denied.

    However in a town/city where a paid dept exsists with volunteers, a union brother volunteering is just smacking every paid firefighter in that town right across the face. In most depts, as is the case with mine and most others these days, we argue every year for additional paid staff. However, because of volunteers we're told that our staffing is sufficient because "the volunteers will come". Now without turning this into a paid vs. volunteer arguement, one can easily understand how frustrating this is to someone like myself who is paid and argues all the time more paid staff is needed. Not to mention in my dept there's an SOP prohibiting any affiliation with any other fire dept paid or volunteer, commission membership or fire supression.

    Maybe it's time for towns/cities that rely so heavily on volunteers (especially those that rely on career firefighters to volunteer) belly up and realize that the time has come to form a paid dept and stop relying on the professionalism of other cities/towns firefighter.
    And with that hopefully any union member that's currently volunteering in a combo-dept realize that he/she is not only violating an IAFF rule but hurting each and every union brother.

    Leave a comment:


  • portable75afd
    replied
    I have read the above article and others that seem the same. To me its sounds like the city, union and fd leadership are all behind this and infavor.

    We will never agree on this issue because we sit on the 2 sides of the fence. I come from a combo dept and have been called everthing from a scab, job stealer to others I cant print here. I understand you do this for a living and I respect that and have always supported our career guys in time of need.

    I guess Im just used to being on the defencive when it coms the unions and the IAFF.

    stay safe.....

    Leave a comment:


  • InAndUp
    replied
    I'm not sure if you read any other articles other the one above, but it was the CITY that proposed the change, not the Union.

    Another note...the IAFF bylaws clearly state that its members are not to volunteer. Some agree with that, some don't...but it's in black and white. Some volunteers trying to get paid jobs don't like that. If that's the case, they may want to find a dept. that is not affilliated with the IAFF.

    We do the same job, except I do it to feed my family. Because of that, I (as well as any other paid FF) need to be sure that we're covered.

    Leave a comment:


  • portable75afd
    replied
    All Im saying is that if the unions are worried about injuries outside there dept. then they sould be as concerned for members with all other physical jobs too. Injuries can happen with any 2nd job and time off or whatever would be the same as an injury as a volunteer fire fighter.

    And this is a paid/volunteer issue because they are both involved.

    Leave a comment:


  • InAndUp
    replied
    You missed a huge point. Some of the biggest payouts in history came from Heart and Hypertension claims.

    If you consider banging nails and mowing lawns to be as stressful, or physically demanding as firefighting, you need to find a busier department!

    The last thing I want this to becaome is a paid vs. volunteer debate.

    Leave a comment:


  • portable75afd
    replied
    If the union is so concerned thay need to expand to all jobs that career firefighters have as other employment like roofers, landscapers, carpenters, ect.

    Leave a comment:

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