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  • #46
    As much as these guys **** me off.....They are looking to make you mad and make you discuss this with them. They want a rise out of you.
    This is ABSOLUTELY not true. I did not start this website to **** people off. Ask around my department about my reputation. You will confirm quickly this is not what I am about.
    As you can see, I am not ridiculing anybody. I truly believe there is a lot more to the events than we have been told. I believe our Brothers and our fellow human beings that were murdered that day deserve this to be investigated in a professional manner. Not by destroying evidence as quickly as possible (read Fire Engineering -Bill Mannings “Selling out the Investigation”), refusing to test for exotic accelerants(go to NIST's own website), and then leaving all of us to hypothesize and fight each other over what may or may not have happened.

    This is really the "evidence" you have??? REALLY??

    Quotes taken out of context by people who have very little experience with collapsing 110 story office buildings?
    Have you read the firefighter transcripts or listened to the radio traffic? There are numerous reports of explosions and secondary explosions. And, up until that day who had experience with a collapsing 110 story office building? My point is (and there are over 100 first responders who reported hearing explosions) that THIS IS NOT CONCLUSIVE PROOF EXPLOSIVES WERE USED…BUT IT SHOULD DEFINITELY MAKE THE INVESTIGATORS (NIST) START CONSIDERING THE POSSIBILITY THERE COULD HAVE BEEN EXPLOSIVES. AND, THAT ALONG WITH THE MANY OTHER INDICATORS OF EXOTIC ACCELERANTS…THEY SHOULD HAVE TESTED FOR THEM. Wouldn’t you?
    And, in response to this is “the “evidence” you have???”
    No, I was responding to this post:
    WTF??? What witnesses to explosions? What recordings of so-called explosions? Elaborate on your alleged breakthrough on fire temps.
    Go to the website and look at the Summary of Evidence.
    ...........And before you post, I said PRODUCE THE EVIDENCE. Dont give me links, dont give me theories, dont give me babble. SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE.
    I did give you witnesses to explosions, and recordings. I don’t know how witness statements and interviews are babble.
    And, if you want to hear radio transmissions reporting explosions, listen to them here
    http://cms.firehouse.com/content/art...6&sectionId=46
    or more interviews at the scene reporting explosions scroll down this page and download the firefighter interviews
    http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHART...efighters.html
    No offense to the individuals you quoted, but there are a billion explanations that support the non-conspiracy theory.

    "Low level flashes" which are reasonably attributed to electrical circuits popping and transformers letting go.
    I agree there are a billion explanations, but with so many people reporting explosions and bombs…don’t you think we should have tested the debris for explosives?

    WTC1 in 1993 was ammonium nitrate packed into a van and parked in the underground garage.

    Riddle me this... how would terrorists manage to get inside of buildings into the structural steel areas without making noise while going through walls that are basically occupied 24/7/365 in some capacity or another, and be able to attach explosive charges and the necessary wiring to interconnect the charges?
    Which third parties? Name them.
    You are missing the point. I am not saying the same type of explosives were used. I’m not saying it wouldn’t have been difficult. What I am saying is in the biggest crime of our lifetimes, and the first 3 high-rise collapses due to fire, don’t you find it unacceptable that N.I.S.T. refused to test for explosive residue, when even NFPA 921 is so clear on the indicators of “exotic accelerants”?
    “Name them”…
    The DELTA Group Study
    A group of scientists at UC Davis, the DELTA Group (Detection and Evaluation of Long-range Transport of Aerosols), performed what they described as the "most thorough analysis yet" of Ground Zero dust and smoke in May of 2002. The study was based on the analysis of air samples from a rooftop air monitor about one mile north-northeast of Ground Zero. The group noted that very fine particles were found at levels not previously found in ambient air, and that the particles included metals such as vanadium. They also noted that particles of concrete and glass were coated with combustion products. 6
    They identified high levels of coarse particles, above, which included powdered concrete and glass with a coating of combustion products, in size range of 5 to 12 micrometers diameter. Very fine particles were found at levels not previously seen in ambient air samples.
    A study by a US EPA research office examining organic gases and particles in the air plumes emanating from Ground Zero noted the presence of 1,3-diphenyl propane -- a compound that had never previously been detected in ambient air sampling. The group hypothesized that this gas was produced by the decomposition of polyvinyl chloride materials in the debris. 7
    Studies by Ryan, Jones, et. al.
    By 2008, if not earlier, the most detailed and comprehensive analysis of World Trade Center dust had been published by a group of independent researchers including physicist Steven P. Jones and chemist Kevin Ryan. Combining data from earlier published studies with results from experiments on dust samples they had obtained, these scientists found both the apparent products of aluminothermic incendiaries and unexploded fragments of such incendiaries. These researchers also examined published data on the emissions of gases from Ground Zero, and supplied straightforward hypotheses, consistent with the view that energetic materials were used to destroy the complex, for observations that were highly anomalous within the context of the government-sanctioned collapse theory.
    And, The RJ Lee Report: In May 2004, the RJ Lee Group issued a report, entitled “WTC Dust Signature,” on behalf of the Deutsche Bank, which had occupied the building at 130 Liberty Street, across from the South Tower. The occasion for this request by Deutsche Bank was its insurer’s claim that most of the dust in the building was “either innocuous or, to the extent that it contained contamination, resulted from a pre-existing condition.” The purpose of the RJ Lee study was, accordingly, to prove that the building was “pervasively contaminated with WTC Dust, unique to the WTC Event.”[1] This study was not, therefore, aimed at determining the cause of the collapses. But it, nevertheless, reported some findings that bear on this question.

    Comment


    • #47
      My name is Jason Abney and I came in the SFD with Erik almost 13 years ago. Contrary to what you guys might think Erik is a fireman through and through. He is not doing this to disrespect, anger, outrage, or dishonor anyone. Actually, he is doing this because he has such a high respect for sacrifice that all of our brothers made on 9/11.

      A majority of the posts on this forum resemble a bunch of ****ed of high schoolers when they hear one of their teachers tell them something that is contrarian to what mommy and daddy have taught them their whole lives. Why the name calling? Why hasn't anyone attempted to find out where Erik is coming from? I agree that there are plenty of nut cases out there, and some of them are a part of the 9/11 truth movement. But does that mean all 9/11 truthers are? This seems like a classic example of "judging a book by its cover." I challenge one of you to be a man and try to have a civil conversation with Erik. Email him, pm him, send him your phone number, I guarantee he will get back to you and give you all of the reasons why he is doing this and the evidence to back it up.

      I am truly saddened that we would treat one of our brothers this way. If you can make the effort to put aside your anger and frustration and go to his website you will see why he is doing this. Erik wants truthful answers and a full accounting of what happened on 9/11.

      I think the only disgusting, despicable, disrespectful and deplorable thing about all of this is that not every fireman in the world is standing up and asking our government to do a complete investigation into what happened. Why wouldn't we want them to test the debris for exotic accelerants? Why wouldn't we want to know why the debris was almost immediately shipped to China? It does not matter if you agree with the NIST report or not. We allow our government to spend millions of dollars investigating steroid use in baseball and nobody bats an eye at it. Yet we suffer the greatest attack on American soil that this country has ever seen, and we do not demand that our government put every amount of its resources and money into finding out every single thing that went wrong that day. To me that is completely disgusting, despicable, disrespectful and deplorable. If that is how you choose to "honor" all those that we lost that day, then I choose to stand with Erik and demand a true and complete accounting of what happened. I believe that is the only way we can truly honor the ultimate sacrifice that so many gave.

      Thank you,
      Jason Abney
      B3/C

      Comment


      • #48
        Wow................

        Boy, wadda mess........... I go out of town for a few days and miss this....... George has all the fun........... I was in Harrisburg, Pa. for the Keystone Nationals Tractor Pull, Had a great time, and just to make it a worthwhile trip, we came in Fourth. I'm one happy camper today.

        Oh, almost forgot. Wife and I stopped by the local Walmart to pick up some stuff, and ran into Elvis Presley............

        Ya never know who will turn up these days..............
        Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
        In memory of
        Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
        Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

        IACOJ Budget Analyst

        I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

        www.gdvfd18.com

        Comment


        • #49
          Koolaid1 (nice name, by the way)-

          I did, actually, check out your site and muddle through it. And it does bring up some good points, I gotta admit....I dont know about chuggin the all koolaid, but there is a lot of stuff that doesn't add up that I must've missed back then.

          More importantly, I respect you having your opinions and views, regardless of how unpopular they are, and for having the balls to share them, during this 'blood-in' beatdown....probably not the easiest crowd you've faced I'm sure. But it's firemen, whatda expect?

          Take care and watch out for the black helicopters!

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by koolaid1 View Post
            I challenge most of you to look at our website before all the name calling. Have the courage to re-examine the evidence and your beliefs.

            Where did I engage in name calling? I wrote, "WTF??? What witnesses to explosions? What recordings of so-called explosions? Elaborate on your alleged breakthrough on fire temps.

            I've only been around one other FF you swallows what you swallow. He is generally considered possibly the oddest and most foolish guy guy in the 600-person dept., even without the 9/11 crap.

            I ashamed of you."

            What name did I call you?

            Debate me on the facts - not your beliefs about "conspiracy theorists"
            Bring it.
            Last edited by LtTony; 04-01-2009, 03:31 AM.

            Comment


            • #51
              Inconclusive. Could be a lot of things. How can you draw any conclusions from it?

              Plus:
              http://www.911myths.com/index.php/A_...xplosion_video

              The next youtube link is of an obviosly edited clip of a fellow who said he heard "explosions" in WTC7. A number of people were still shellshocked when interviewed and were confused. Speculation abounds about what the man witnessed or didn't witness. You're going to bring something more solid than that vid.

              http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...67#post2703667

              http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=116661


              http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c...i=&safe=images)



              This link is about WTC7 in general. It is hard to take the testimony of a man who has since died (conspiracy alert!) seriously.

              http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm
              Last edited by LtTony; 04-01-2009, 03:03 AM.

              Comment


              • #52
                Hello gentlemen,

                Lance Fisher here, Seattle Fire Department, Ladder 12 'C' Shift.

                I heard through the grapevine that my friend and brother Erik Lawyer was enduring quite an assault here on the Firehouse forums, and I'm here to clarify a couple of things for all you toads that chose to engage in ad hominem attacks.

                I'm quite confident that most of the anonymous snipers here in this thread will have no idea what "ad hominem" means, so please allow me to enlighten you. Simply put, an ad hominem argument is the act of attacking the individual making a claim on a personal level, rather than engaging in any substantive argument against the claim itself. That is pretty much all that I have seen here.

                Erik works just one Truck Company North of me, down in the Southeast corner of this lovely "delusional" city we call Seattle. As a result of our geographical proximity, I get to see Erik's smiling face down here in the Rainier Valley just about every time we try to burn something up. I'm here to tell all who read this that Erik Lawyer is one of those rare individuals who is easy to respect and easy to like. It's pretty common to meet someone who is better at one than the other, but Erik has both down pat. He is a hardworking and knowledgeable firefighter. Over in Boston (another city that, once upon a time, was filled with men who dared to question their government) they would say; "He's a good Jake".

                Erik showed guts by coming here into a clearly hostile environment to answer questions about his website, and all you people can do is verbally stone him?

                He showed discretion and class in his postings by taking the high road, avoiding the name calling you so willingly engage in, and you have the audacity to question his motives and professionalism?

                Worst of all, you initiate a thread full of hostilities in a widely viewed forum (a forum of which Erik was not previously a member), and then you proceed to accuse HIM of starting the whole thing, by way of "trolling"?!

                The fact that you would accuse him of being "delusional" after this blatant display of self serving psychosis is laughable...

                GO AWAY! Your conspiracy nonsense is not wanted here. Go back to your conspiracy wackjob websites.
                They are looking to make you mad and make you discuss this with them. They want a rise out of you.

                Ignore the trolls, they will go away.
                Dickey, you seem to be completely confused about the definition of the word "troll", as it applies to "trolling" an internet forum. The fact that this thread was started in Erik's absence and accumulated a total of 17 inflammatory posts before Erik even had a chance to register on the site and begin to defend himself automatically excludes the possibility that he was "trolling". Indeed, if there is any doubt of this fact one need look no farther than my friend Erik's total post count, which stands at a staggering total of four (4) posts as I write this.

                I realize that anyone who would launch vicious ad hominem attacks on someone they know virtually nothing about is probably a bit slow on the uptake, so I'll do the math for you - four (4) just happens to be the sum total of posts Erik has made here defending himself since he began that arduous task on post # 18.

                The level of hostility that can develop when people are confronted with ideas that make them uncomfortable never fails to amaze me. It is clearly a psychological defense mechanism. I believe the reason that folks like you fail to even devote a single minute of critical thought to the evidence presented before you is due to the fact that the conclusion it could potentially point you toward causes you fear. You fear the possible destination so you resist even thinking about it. Your mindless hostilities here are pretty conclusive evidence of that.
                Last edited by RainierTruckie; 04-02-2009, 04:30 PM. Reason: spelling
                Lance Fisher
                Seattle Fire Department
                Station #28
                Ladder 12

                Comment


                • #53
                  Here's just a few quotes from the transcripts: If you want more...there's plenty more.

                  F.D.N.Y. ASST. COMMISSIONER STEPHEN GREGORY:
                  “I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before Number Two came down, that I saw low-level flashes. …I saw a flash-flash-flash, and then it looked like the building came down.”

                  FIREFIGHTER GEORGE KOZLOWSKI:
                  “We made it around the corner and that’s when the **** hit the fan, right then and there. We heard that loud ‘Ba-Boom!’ I just - it was like an earthquake, or whatever; a giant, giant explosion.

                  MARK STEFFENS, DIVISION CHIEF, E.M.S.:
                  “Then there was another it sounded like an explosion.... It looked like a fireball...
                  You jump to huge, illogical conclusions based on snippets of metaphors.

                  It looked liked an explosion; it sounded like an explosion. One guy say's, "it was like an earthquake." That doesn't mean it was an earthquake. These are figures of speech. If you discussed the details with these guys, you would find out how wrong you are. Have you talked to any of them? You quote them.

                  Also, have you ever seen a steel beam snap? I have. Gives off energy. Heat. Light. Sound. There was no explosives involved, though.

                  With all the due respect I can muster, it would be miserable working around someone like you.

                  BTW, who is behind this conspiracy and why? Was it zionist jews, LOL?

                  The often-bigoted people behind 9/11 conspiracies used extremely flawed science, even for a non-scientist like myself. They have their conclusion first, then they line up so-called facts to allegedly reach that conclusion. True, ethical science is supposed to work the other way around.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by hwoods View Post
                    Boy, wadda mess........... I go out of town for a few days and miss this....... George has all the fun........... I was in Harrisburg, Pa. for the Keystone Nationals Tractor Pull, Had a great time, and just to make it a worthwhile trip, we came in Fourth. I'm one happy camper today.

                    Oh, almost forgot. Wife and I stopped by the local Walmart to pick up some stuff, and ran into Elvis Presley............

                    Ya never know who will turn up these days..............
                    Who would wanna pull a tractor?
                    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by LtTony View Post
                      You jump to huge, illogical conclusions based on snippets of metaphors.

                      It looked liked an explosion; it sounded like an explosion. One guy say's, "it was like an earthquake." That doesn't mean it was an earthquake. These are figures of speech. If you discussed the details with these guys, you would find out how wrong you are. Have you talked to any of them? You quote them.

                      Also, have you ever seen a steel beam snap? I have. Gives off energy. Heat. Light. Sound. There was no explosives involved, though.

                      With all the due respect I can muster, it would be miserable working around someone like you.

                      BTW, who is behind this conspiracy and why? Was it zionist jews, LOL?

                      The often-bigoted people behind 9/11 conspiracies used extremely flawed science, even for a non-scientist like myself. They have their conclusion first, then they line up so-called facts to allegedly reach that conclusion. True, ethical science is supposed to work the other way around.
                      Lou, you're making a big mistake trying to debate this fool. That is what they thrive on.

                      But maybe you are on to something here. Perhaps the terrorists caused an earthquake!
                      PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        This is without doubt all absolutely true. After taking over Roswell NM, the dastards waited on the Grassy knoll by Dealy plaza, then actually took President Kennedy and Walt Disneys brains and cybernetically froze them. Now they have inserted some guy into the Hawaiian birth certificate system who people think is either the President of the US or Indonesia, I forget which. Film at 11

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Yeah, Right..............

                          Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
                          Who would wanna pull a tractor?

                          Those of us who finished high enough to win a sizeable chunk of change did.............. Not quite NASCAR, but good enough for Country Boys. Motorsports is my life outside of the Fire Service.....
                          Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
                          In memory of
                          Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
                          Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

                          IACOJ Budget Analyst

                          I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

                          www.gdvfd18.com

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Thanks, Bryan.............

                            Originally posted by BryanLoader View Post
                            This is without doubt all absolutely true. After taking over Roswell NM, the dastards waited on the Grassy knoll by Dealy plaza, then actually took President Kennedy and Walt Disneys brains and cybernetically froze them. Now they have inserted some guy into the Hawaiian birth certificate system who people think is either the President of the US or Indonesia, I forget which. Film at 11


                            I'm now mopping up Coffee........... Again. I need to put the Coffee Cup down before reading George, Dickey, and You..............
                            Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
                            In memory of
                            Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
                            Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

                            IACOJ Budget Analyst

                            I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

                            www.gdvfd18.com

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              The idea of explosives being planted in WTC 1 or 2 as a secondary, antipersonnel device is not farfetched in and of itself. It's easy enough to imagine bad guys getting in during the chaos after the aircraft impacts, to inflict harm on evacuating civilians and advancing first responders. There's no evidence this actually happened (other than the "sounds like a bomb" noises to be expected when a quarter-mile-tall skyscraper collapses), but it's not a crazy premise.

                              But the 9/11 conspiracy nuts want us to believe that these buildings were actually brought down by controlled demolition (CD). They say stuff like "they fell in their own footprint" (which they didn't; hence the gaping chunk smashed out of WTC 7) as evidence for CD. But such would require months of preparatory work, including stripping much of the interior and modifications to the structural members in addition to carefully emplacing charges, which as CaptainGonzo pointed out, cannot be done with nobody noticing. Or they babble on about thermite and "molten steel for weeks afterwards", ignoring inconvenient facts like (a) thermite isn't used that way and (b) thermite would all be promptly consumed and wouldn't be around for weeks.

                              It's all garbage, part making stuff up and part harping on tiny details while ignoring the obvious realities. And that's before you get to the ones claiming that no airliner hit the Pentagon, or that nuclear weapons or energy beams actually vaporized the Twin Towers. BryanLoader tried to spoof the craziness, but you can't really outdo the conspiracists in coming up with the Looney Tunes scenarios. Which is why George and Dickey are right about not giving them attention... so I'll stop now.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                I have said it before.....

                                Go to Section 2.4, on about page 63 of the pdf....

                                http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/PDF/NCSTAR%201A.pdf

                                A bunch of facts produced by engineers based on laws of physics that takes all of your bullsh1t and flushes it down the toilet where it belongs.

                                Take your website and stick it.
                                Thomas Anthony, PE
                                Structures Specialist PA-TF1 & PA-ST1
                                Paramedic / Rescue Tech North Huntington Twp EMS
                                The artist formerly known as Captain 10-2

                                No, I am not a water rescue technician, but I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

                                Comment

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