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  • #31
    plus he was actually on site at the World Trade Center.
    I don't want to make too much out of this part. I wasn't doing anything the slightest bit dangerous.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

    Comment


    • #32
      I still want to know what molten concrete looks like........
      "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

      Comment


      • #33
        Question

        As I said, I'm not here to make it personal.

        The only legitimate question I saw - was about molten concrete.
        Here's a video of what it looks like.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbMu2...layer_embedded

        I have a legitimate question for any fire investigator. Is there a valid reason why when we have a history of terrorists using explosives in '93, we have so many witnesses to explosions, we have temperatures that are not produced by hydrocarbon fires, and audio recordings of explosions....that N.I.S.T. would not test for exotic accelerants?

        Comment


        • #34
          something like this?
          http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...a%3DX%26um%3D1

          From a website that is discussing rocket engine testing; not exactly what happened at the WTC, so I'm not part of the conspiracy theory.
          But there is molten concrete, apparently.
          Last edited by flipper123; 03-31-2009, 12:49 AM.

          Comment


          • #35
            What I love (for want of a better word) about conspiracy loons is the utter consistency of their inconsistency. WTC 7 collapsed? Proof of the conspiracy! A building in Beijing, built after 9/11/01 and incorporating its lessons learned, with different construction and undamaged by a quarter-mile skyscraper falling against it, didn't collapse? Proof of the conspiracy!

            It's also a mind (again, for want of a better word) set beautifully impervious to the simple question "why?" Why did the CIA/NASA/Illuminati/Freemasons/Jews/space lizards have to blow up the Twin Towers? One supposes smashing airliners into them and killing a couple of thousand people wasn't enough to make Americans angry. They had to actually fall down. Why, then, blow up the relatively obscure WTC 7? One supposes blowing up the Twin Towers wasn't enough - they had to get rid of a building most Americans had never even heard of. Why, then, wait until everyone had been evacuated? One supposes that they didn't want to actually hurt anyone this time.

            And so it goes. Scenarios ranging from the merely implausible to the utterly insane are proposed by the conspiracy whackjobs. Never mind that the vast majority of engineers, architects, pilots, demolition experts, and yes, firefighters all dismiss them. Never mind that the alleged reasons for staging the attacks (martial law, cheap oil from Iraq, pipelines across Afghanistan, whatever) never happened. Never mind that unambiguous collapse indicators were observed at WTC 1, 2, and 7 before they fell. Never mind that the collapses only really resemble controlled demolitions in the sense that, yes, the buildings did fall down. The conspiracists will go on obsessively about the tiniest details and coincidences, while blissfully ignoring the evidence against their claims, let alone their gaping contradictions and the simple fact they flat-out make no sense to begin with.

            No, I'm not surprised that a few firefighters would be gullible, uncritical, or unstable enough to fall for this crap. There's one in very crowd, as the old saying goes, and in a country where there are still those who claim we never landed on the Moon, it's hardly surprising. Depressing, yes, but not surprising.
            Last edited by sts060; 03-31-2009, 03:59 PM. Reason: fixed typo

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by koolaid1 View Post
              As I said, I'm not here to make it personal.

              The only legitimate question I saw - was about molten concrete.
              Here's a video of what it looks like.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbMu2...layer_embedded

              I have a legitimate question for any fire investigator. Is there a valid reason why when we have a history of terrorists using explosives in '93, we have so many witnesses to explosions, we have temperatures that are not produced by hydrocarbon fires, and audio recordings of explosions....that N.I.S.T. would not test for exotic accelerants?

              "...we have so many witnesses to explosions, we have temperatures that are not produced by hydrocarbon fires, and audio recordings of explosions..."

              WTF??? What witnesses to explosions? What recordings of so-called explosions? Elaborate on your alleged breakthrough on fire temps.

              I've only been around one other FF you swallows what you swallow. He is generally considered possibly the oddest and most foolish guy guy in the 600-person dept., even without the 9/11 crap.

              I ashamed of you.
              Last edited by LtTony; 04-01-2009, 01:38 AM.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by ShuckingGome View Post
                I don't think you're crazy or a nut job. I think there are a lot more questions then answers when it comes to 9/11 and I think if the government was being truthful in their account of what happened on 9/11 then they would be completely open and willing to discuss what happened. But they're not. You have my support. I think it is our jobs as US citizens to question authority and to think for ourselves, and to be awake and aware.
                You make me sick, too. What friggin' questions are unanswered? And I mean significant questions, not absurd details that are never 100% answered any ANY large fire.

                How has the government not been completely open? I mean exactly. I want specific information and citations. Not what you think happened.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by LtTony View Post
                  "...we have so many witnesses to explosions, we have temperatures that are not produced by hydrocarbon fires, and audio recordings of explosions..."

                  WTF??? What witnesses to explosions? What recordings of so-called explosions? Elaborate on your alleged breakthrough on fire temps.

                  I've only been around one other FF you swallows what you swallow. He is generally considered possibly the oddest and most foolish guy guy in the 600-person dept., even with the 9/11 crap.

                  I ashamed of you.
                  I challenge most of you to look at our website before all the name calling. Have the courage to re-examine the evidence and your beliefs.

                  We have this priceless opportunity (until the lock) to have some fun. We can whack this fool in the head and watch to see what happens next. When it dies down, we whack him again. It would be an unbelievable thing to watch
                  You should really ask yourself why you have the desire to jump on the dogpile. What are you afraid of? You're reacting out of emotion - not facts. There is a reason.

                  Debate me on the facts - not your beliefs about "conspiracy theorists"

                  Watch these:

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YvrK...layer_embedded

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8Liv...layer_embedded

                  If you really want evidence on temps...let me know - I'll provide those too.

                  Now remember guys, I'm talking about the investigation. HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO RULE OUT THAT TERRORISTS DID NOT PLANT EXPLOSIVES IN ADDITION TO THE AIRPLANE STRIKES?...THEY USED THEM ON WTC1 IN 1993.
                  This is an easy test. Third parties tested for them and found them!! NIST refuses to this day to test for explosives.

                  Here's just a few quotes from the transcripts: If you want more...there's plenty more.

                  F.D.N.Y. ASST. COMMISSIONER STEPHEN GREGORY:
                  “I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before Number Two came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him…I saw a flash-flash-flash, and then it looked like the building came down.”

                  FIREFIGHTER GEORGE KOZLOWSKI:
                  “We made it around the corner and that’s when the **** hit the fan, right then and there. We heard that loud ‘Ba-Boom!’ I just - it was like an earthquake, or whatever; a giant, giant explosion. Then this big gust came and I just went flying – maybe thirty, forty feet – tumbling. I got up, got on my hands and knees, because all of that white **** was all over me. I just kept crawling. My ears were like, deaf, you know?

                  MARK STEFFENS, DIVISION CHIEF, E.M.S.:
                  “Then there was another it sounded like an explosion and heavy white powder, papers, flying everywhere. We sat put there for a few minutes. It kind of dissipated.”

                  “That’s when we heard this massive explosion and I saw this thing rolling towards us. It looked like a fireball and then thick, thick black smoke.”


                  KEITH MURPHY, F.D.N.Y.:
                  “I was standing kind of on the edge of where our elevator bank met the big elevator bank. That was when the - I determined that’s when the north tower collapses. We are standing there and the first thing that happened, which I still think is strange to me, the lights went out. Completely pitch black. Since we are in that core little area of the building, there is no natural light. No nothing, I didn’t see a thing. I had heard right before the lights went out, I had heard a distant ‘boom-boom-boom, sounded like three explosions. I don’t know what it was. At the time, I would have said they sounded like bombs, but it was ‘boom-boom-boom’ and then the lights all go out. I hear someone say oh, ****, that was just for the lights out. I would say about 3, 4 seconds, all of a sudden this tremendous roar. It sounded like being in a tunnel with the train coming at you.”


                  Steve Evans, Reporter for BBC:
                  “I was at the base of the second tower, the second tower that was hit. There was an explosion…the base of the building shook. I felt it shake…then when we were outside, the second explosion happened and then there was a series of explosions.”

                  Fox 5 News, New York (Reporting LIVE):
                  “There is an explosion at the base of the building…white smoke from the bottom…something has happened at the base of the building…”


                  I can provide you with more audio, video and transcripts if you like.
                  I challenge you - LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE YOURSELF - DON'T REPEAT WHAT YOU HEAR FROM THE MEDIA.

                  Here's the link to the Governments site on the evidence they have. Have the courage to look.

                  http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notable...aoui/exhibits/

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by koolaid1 View Post
                    As I said, I'm not here to make it personal.

                    The only legitimate question I saw - was about molten concrete.
                    Here's a video of what it looks like.

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbMu2...layer_embedded That is not molten concrete. That is a block of concrete that has solidified (if it indeed was molten once upon a time.) Also lets not mention the fact that the video you posted was so childishly edited and put together that I give it no credibility whatsoever. My question still stands: What does MOLTEN CONCRETE look like? What is the temperature of MOLTEN CONCRETE? Does it flow like lava? Does it glow red?

                    I have a legitimate question for any fire investigator. Is there a valid reason why when we have a history of terrorists using explosives in '93, we have so many witnesses to explosions, Where? Produce them. we have temperatures that are not produced by hydrocarbon fires,40,000 pounds of Jet-A isn't a hydrocarbon fire? and audio recordings of explosions.Where? produce them. ...that N.I.S.T. would not test for exotic accelerants?Because there is nothing to test for. Now take the tinfoil hat off your head and allow your brain cells to have the oxygen you are depriving them of.
                    ...........And before you post, I said PRODUCE THE EVIDENCE. Dont give me links, dont give me theories, dont give me babble. SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE.
                    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by koolaid1 View Post
                      Now remember guys, I'm talking about the investigation. HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO RULE OUT THAT TERRORISTS DID NOT PLANT EXPLOSIVES IN ADDITION TO THE AIRPLANE STRIKES?...THEY USED THEM ON WTC1 IN 1993.

                      This is an easy test. Third parties tested for them and found them!! NIST refuses to this day to test for explosives.

                      Here's just a few quotes from the transcripts: If you want more...there's plenty more.

                      F.D.N.Y. ASST. COMMISSIONER STEPHEN GREGORY:
                      “I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before Number Two came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him…I saw a flash-flash-flash, and then it looked like the building came down.”

                      FIREFIGHTER GEORGE KOZLOWSKI:
                      “We made it around the corner and that’s when the **** hit the fan, right then and there. We heard that loud ‘Ba-Boom!’ I just - it was like an earthquake, or whatever; a giant, giant explosion. Then this big gust came and I just went flying – maybe thirty, forty feet – tumbling. I got up, got on my hands and knees, because all of that white **** was all over me. I just kept crawling. My ears were like, deaf, you know?

                      MARK STEFFENS, DIVISION CHIEF, E.M.S.:
                      “Then there was another it sounded like an explosion and heavy white powder, papers, flying everywhere. We sat put there for a few minutes. It kind of dissipated.”

                      “That’s when we heard this massive explosion and I saw this thing rolling towards us. It looked like a fireball and then thick, thick black smoke.”


                      KEITH MURPHY, F.D.N.Y.:
                      “I was standing kind of on the edge of where our elevator bank met the big elevator bank. That was when the - I determined that’s when the north tower collapses. We are standing there and the first thing that happened, which I still think is strange to me, the lights went out. Completely pitch black. Since we are in that core little area of the building, there is no natural light. No nothing, I didn’t see a thing. I had heard right before the lights went out, I had heard a distant ‘boom-boom-boom, sounded like three explosions. I don’t know what it was. At the time, I would have said they sounded like bombs, but it was ‘boom-boom-boom’ and then the lights all go out. I hear someone say oh, ****, that was just for the lights out. I would say about 3, 4 seconds, all of a sudden this tremendous roar. It sounded like being in a tunnel with the train coming at you.”


                      Steve Evans, Reporter for BBC:
                      “I was at the base of the second tower, the second tower that was hit. There was an explosion…the base of the building shook. I felt it shake…then when we were outside, the second explosion happened and then there was a series of explosions.”

                      Fox 5 News, New York (Reporting LIVE):
                      “There is an explosion at the base of the building…white smoke from the bottom…something has happened at the base of the building…”


                      I can provide you with more audio, video and transcripts if you like.
                      I challenge you - LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE YOURSELF - DON'T REPEAT WHAT YOU HEAR FROM THE MEDIA.

                      Here's the link to the Governments site on the evidence they have. Have the courage to look.

                      http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notable...aoui/exhibits/
                      This is really the "evidence" you have??? REALLY??

                      Quotes taken out of context by people who have very little experience with collapsing 110 story office buildings?

                      No offense to the individuals you quoted, but there are a billion explanations that support the non-conspiracy theory.

                      "Low level flashes" which are reasonably attributed to electrical circuits popping and transformers letting go.

                      I really can't imagine the motivation for someone to promote this garbage.

                      Don't go off saying that I'm not "open minded". I know people who were there and they wouldn't sit still for one second if they thought that there were these things you claim had happened.

                      =============================

                      I think you need to stop standing in front of the microwave, it's got a leak and you aren't wearing your tin foil hat!


                      .
                      I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

                      "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

                      "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        As much as these guys **** me off.....They are looking to make you mad and make you discuss this with them. They want a rise out of you.

                        Ignore the trolls, they will go away.
                        Jason Knecht
                        Firefighter/EMT
                        Township Fire Dept., Inc.
                        Eau Claire, WI

                        IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
                        http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
                        EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Posted by Koolaid (which apparently, you have been drinkingway too much of...)

                          Now remember guys, I'm talking about the investigation. HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO RULE OUT THAT TERRORISTS DID NOT PLANT EXPLOSIVES IN ADDITION TO THE AIRPLANE STRIKES?...THEY USED THEM ON WTC1 IN 1993.
                          This is an easy test. Third parties tested for them and found them!! NIST refuses to this day to test for explosives.
                          WTC1 in 1993 was ammonium nitrate packed into a van and parked in the underground garage.

                          Riddle me this... how would terrorists manage to get inside of buildings into the structural steel areas without making noise while going through walls that are basically occupied 24/7/365 in some capacity or another, and be able to attach explosive charges and the necessary wiring to interconnect the charges?

                          Which third parties? Name them.

                          By the way.. I had friends who were there. They know the "truth".. and I have far more trust in them than I do with your ilk.
                          Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 03-31-2009, 05:40 PM.
                          ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                          Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            koolaid1...

                            GO AWAY! Your conspiracy nonsense is not wanted here. Go back to your conspiracy wackjob websites.

                            Next month's topic at the meeting is folding aluminum foil hats...do we need Reynolds Wrap or will generic foil work?
                            Last edited by FyredUp; 03-31-2009, 07:39 PM.
                            Crazy, but that's how it goes
                            Millions of people living as foes
                            Maybe it's not too late
                            To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              A building in Beijing, built after 9/11/01 and incorporating its lessons learned, with different construction and undamaged by a quarter-mile skyscraper falling against it, didn't collapse? Proof of the conspiracy!
                              Yeah, but that Chinese crap never lasts.
                              PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I got a three page pm from this friggin' nut. I haven't read it. I deleted it, after I provided this answer to him:

                                "Do not send me any more messages. You are out of your mind. What you are doing is despicable and is a complete show of disrespect to the FDNY in particular and the fire service in general. You do not have the slightest idea of what you are talking about. Your entire "body of evidence" is based on an utter lack of understanding of science and human behavior. Your posts and your mindset literally sicken me. The smartest thing you could do is to simply go away. You and your drivel are not wanted here."
                                PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

                                Comment

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