Firefightersfor9-11truth.org

[ChiefKN]

Confirmed all to be true by numerous credible mainstream sources from Fox themselves before they were hijacked by CIA control, CNN,ABC,NBC,CBS, MSNBC, and over 500 Newspaper agencies from the Boston Globe to the Miami Herald and in books written by Senator Bob Graham, Pulitzer prize winners Peter Lance, Jim Bamford, Seymour Hersh,and outlined by the # 1 credible timeline source


--Blocked FBI investigations (several) leading up to 9/11 that would of stopped the attacks in many different areas especially reaching the top levels of government officials, not mentioned by the commission

-Why were many of the alleged hijackers doing flight training at U.S. naval schools, but not mentioned by the commission

- Why were the CIA's interrogation video tapes of terrorists destroyed just prior to 9/11 and not mentioned by the 9/11 commission

- Why film from over 85 cameras at and in and around the Pentagon, including cameras at the Citgo gas station facing clearly at the Pentagon alleged strike area, were never released -- and never mentioned by the 9/11 commission

--Obstruction of Justice by all agencies involved from the CIA to FBI to the NSA , not mentioned by the commission

--Covered up financing of the attacks by our # 1 ME allies (Saudis. and also Paki intel chief), not mentioned by the commission

--200 Israel spies arrested on 9/11, five arrested with explosives and box cutters in their van in NYC, not mentioned by the commission

--The CD like collapse of WTC-7 (which housed files of the CIA,FBI,and Enron,Wall street corruption cases) which was NOT hit by a plane, not mentioned by the commission nor did NIST test for that hyopthesis - which is amazingly absurd when it could of been the terrorists who bombed these buildings in THEORY. AGAIN, not mentioned by the commission

- Why was FEMA in NYC the day before 9/11 for a terrorism scenario - but not discussed by the Commission.

- Why only 4 wargames were briefly mentioned during the hearings when there were over 15 wargame exercise that depleted the use of F-16's that day, and never made it into the final report?

-Why were government officials WARNED not to fly the night before 9/11 and not mentioned by the commission

-Why did Rumsfeld announce on tv the night before 9/11 that $2.3 trillion dollars were missing from the Pentagon/Defense dept. budget but yet it was never mentioned again AFTER 9/11?

-Why was insider trading on the two plane company's involved (AA and United) prior to 9/11 betting on stocks to drop drastically, but not included in the final commission report when it's known to be the first thing the FBI investigates to predict crimes via foreknowledge detection
-Why was it never made public who the people involved in the insider trading?

- Why Dick Cheney lied when he said he got into the Emergency control bunker at 10am when TSA sec Norman Mineta (as witnessed by Counter terrorism chief Richard Clark) testified that Cheney was in there at 9:15 am running the scene (NORAD,NEADS,FAA,ATC,etc).

- Why Bush,Rice,Powell all were out of the Country or out of the State that day and Rumseld and Gen. Brig. Winfield had rookie stand in's for the entire 2 hours of the attacks, but returned when the attacks ended? Not mentioned by the 9/11 Commission

-What were the connections between Mohammad Atta and the Dutch drug smuggling flight school owners in Venice,Florida?

-Why were Atta and several alleged hijackers seen on a Sun Cruz Casino ship just prior to 9/11, owned by Jack Abramoff who was connected to the Dutch flight school owners and how did Abramoff get away with the murder of former Sun Cruz owner Gus Boulis (gunned down in his Lexus in Ft. lauderdale on US1 in early 2001), not mentioned by the commission despite Tampa and Miami newspaper reports (Miami Herald)

-Why were several of the hijackers reported ALIVE by UK newspapers and some of them interviewed post 9/11, but NOT mentioned by the commission

--Why steel was shipped out immediately from ground zero's rubble the morning of 9/11 without testing or investigating the steel, a federal crime -- not mentioned by the commission

-The few hundred witnesses, mostly firemen, who heard bombs going off in the basements,lobby,various other places at various times. ALL records & interviews that were gathered by NYPD --not mentioned by the commission nor anyone allowed to testify

- Bush and Cheney refusal to testify under oath despite the family steering committiees request for them to do so

- Bush and Cheney refusal to testify separately despite the family steering committiees request for them to do so

- Bush and Cheney refusal to testify in the commission in front of the camera's and family members, commissioners, and so forth despite the family steering committiees request for them to do so

- Bush and Cheney refusal to allow any recordings or transcripts of their testimony -- not mentioned by the commission despite the family steering committiees request for them to do so

- The three extremely different timelines given by NORAD, with talk of referring this variance to the dept. of justice -- but yet not approved by the commission in the end and not mentioned in the final report. Despite a key commissioner resigning in disgust

- Why the FAA destroyed all the tapes of recorded phone conversations to NEADS, NORAD,and the PEOTC when such actions are a Federal crime -- not mentioned AT ALL by the commission

- Why key whistleblowers for ABLE DANGER, and also from the FBI who had key information were gagged or fired?

- Why Rudy Guiliani told ABC News and Fox News that he was told the first WTC was going to collapse but no one told the firefighters to get out, including himself. Why no one asked or held Guiliani accountable on who fed him this information

There are hundreds more...........

Every generation has them. They used to wear sandwich boards that had sayings like "the end is near"...etc... etc.

I've never seen a more complete collection of unsubstantiated and outright lies as in the post I quoted.

There's no arguing with crazy.


.

[ChiefKN]

Well, I'm here to tell you that should you decide to pull your head out of the sand and accept the fact that the world is not exactly as it seems, that our politicians tell really big lies, and that there is such a thing as real evil at the upper levels of power in this world; Your universe will seem like a less friendly place. It's scary but true, and I'm sorry that the truth is so hard to swallow. I'm sorry that your perception of the world is so distorted, and you find the rosy colored glasses so difficult to remove.

This isn't Disneyland. This isn't the "Happiest Place On Earth".

It is, however, your right to remain asleep and uninformed if you so choose.

Yawn.

Any proof yet?

.

[LtTony]

Erik Lawyer
"Where am I screaming conspiracy?"

firepomp08
"...before they were hijacked by CIA control...200 Israel spies arrested on 9/11, five arrested with explosives and box cutters...Why were the CIA's interrogation video tapes of terrorists destroyed...There are hundreds more..........."

"RainierTruckie"
"...that our politicians tell really big lies, and that there is such a thing as real evil at the upper levels of power in this world..."

Are you guys talking about the same thing? Cause Eric asks where he has suggested conspiracy, yet these last two (who I doubt are FFs) seem to be talking conspiracy at the highest level.

Oh, that's right, Eric IS talking conspiracy. He just doesn't want to be honest about it.

And btw Eric, sarcasm is not insult, especially if it is mixed with substantive questions of you.

Also, "firepomp", what is your opinion of the state of Israel? Of Jewish people in general? Do you think American Jewish citizens were involved? Do think Jews evacuated the buildings prior to the crashes?

[FyredUp]

Let me hit you with my own conspiracy theory.

LtTony is part of the 9/11 conspiracy group. His mission was to start the thread acting indignant at the theory of this group. He posts, and we move to disprove the conspiracy theory. BOOM, out of the woodwork come the believers and they post all kinds of drivel. LtTony then attempts to refute their theories and sets them up to post more in rebuttal and new information from the conspiracy.

Chew on that awhile conspiracy buffs!!

[RainierTruckie]

Yawn.

Any proof yet?

.

Keep yawning Chief. I have no doubt that you are sleepy. In fact, my guess is that you must have been in a deep REM state when you wrote this...

WTC7 failed because two very large skyscrapers fell on it and a fire that burned for SEVEN HOURS weakened an already overloaded and damaged structure.

WTC 1 & 2 did not fall on WTC7. First off, the towers did not "topple" over in a manner in which they were able to "fall onto" anything. They collapsed straight down into their own footprints, this can be plainly seen in any of the widely viewed footage of the collapses. Second, there were two buildings that stood between the towers and WTC 7. Those two buildings were...

WTC 5, which was a nine story building that stood to the East of WTC 1. It was damaged significantly by fallout from the collapse of the towers, and it suffered significantly greater fire involvement than WTC 7, yet it did not collapse.

WTC 6, which was an eight story building that stood directly adjacent to the North Tower (WTC 1). It suffered massive structural damage from the collapse of the towers, and also suffered significantly greater fire involvement than WTC 7, yet it did not collapse either.

In fact, your very own 'Holy Grail Of Truth' (the NIST website) states that the tower collapses did not cause WTC 7's collapse.

Did debris from the collapse of WTC 1 cause damage to WTC 7’s structure in a way that contributed to the building’s collapse?

The debris caused structural damage to the southwest region of the building—severing seven exterior columns—but this structural damage did not initiate the collapse. The fires initiated by the debris, rather than the structural damage that resulted from the impacts, initiated the building’s collapse after the fires grew and spread to the northeast region after several hours. The debris impact caused no damage to the spray-applied fire resistive material that was applied to the steel columns, girders, and beams except in the immediate vicinity of the severed columns. The debris impact damage did play a secondary role in the last stages of the collapse sequence, where the exterior façade buckled at the lower floors where the impact damage was located. A separate analysis showed that even without the structural damage due to debris impact, WTC 7 would have collapsed in fires similar to those that occurred on Sept. 11, 2001. None of the large pieces of debris from WTC 2 (the south tower) hit WTC 7 because of the large distance between the two buildings.

The claim that "WTC7 failed because two very large skyscrapers fell on it", is blatantly false, and suggests one of two things...

1) You actually believe this to be the case, in which case you are too ignorant of the events on 9-11 to participate in a serious discussion of it.

or

2) You're just making $h!t up (aka - lying)

Which is it Chief?

[RainierTruckie]

...yet these last two (who I doubt are FFs) seem to be talking conspiracy at the highest level...

Nicely done. The 'ol "counter- accuse" maneuver should be in every troll's toolbox.

You obviously didn't think this through very well though my friend. I have provided my name, department, my station, and even the rig I work on at the end of each post. It would be a pretty simple matter to verify whether or not I really am a firefighter.

"LtTony", if you really want to make this your "Dodge", stand up and post your name and department. Right now you're not fooling anyone, end of story.

[ChiefKN]

WTC 1 & 2 did not fall on WTC7. First off, the towers did not "topple" over in a manner in which they were able to "fall onto" anything. They collapsed straight down into their own footprints, this can be plainly seen in any of the widely viewed footage of the collapses. Second, there were two buildings that stood between the towers and WTC 7. Those two buildings were...

Actually Lance, I'm guessing that you weren't there. That you did not see this, that you get your data from the internet (great source).

There was considerable damage to WTC7 from the collapse. The collapse of the two towers in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM fell into their own footprints.

WTC7 was only 300 feet from the base of WTC.

Keep dreaming buddy, you have NO clue what you are talking about.

WTC 5, which was a nine story building that stood to the East of WTC 1. It was damaged significantly by fallout from the collapse of the towers, and it suffered significantly greater fire involvement than WTC 7, yet it did not collapse.

WTC 6, which was an eight story building that stood directly adjacent to the North Tower (WTC 1). It suffered massive structural damage from the collapse of the towers, and also suffered significantly greater fire involvement than WTC 7, yet it did not collapse either.

Completely different buildings will react completely differently to having another building fall on them AND to the fire that eventually consumed most of it.

The various thousands of construction workers, firefighters, cops, steel workers, engineers and experts on site found NO EVIDENCE OF EXPLOSIVES, no det cord, no NOTHING.

BLDG Seven was not built like a regular skyscraper. It's lower floors were described as an ampitheater, with no vertical supports but rather trusses.

Educate yourself on building construction and this building's construction.

In fact, your very own 'Holy Grail Of Truth' (the NIST website) states that the tower collapses did not cause WTC 7's collapse.

It collapsed because it was on fire with NO suppression for greater than seven hours.

WTC 7

There were also diesel generators with pressurized lines going up to the generators... adding to the fire.

READ the report, it's all in there. However, it doesn't state that it was blown up by israeli agents, cheney's henchmen, or the world bank security guards.

The claim that "WTC7 failed because two very large skyscrapers fell on it", is blatantly false, and suggests one of two things...

1) You actually believe this to be the case, in which case you are too ignorant of the events on 9-11 to participate in a serious discussion of it.

or

2) You're just making $h!t up (aka - lying)

Which is it Chief?

Why do it? To destroy the computers and files for the IRS/DOD/CIA??? WHY? Seems a bit excessive to destroy some papers and computers.

I know of several thousand firefighters (some very good friends) who WATCHED IT HAPPEN.

Now go play with the internet or something, leave the serious discussion to the adults.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Chief, not only wasn't he there when it happened, I'll bet he was never there, ever, peroid.

He talks about credible evidence, yet he ognores the fact that I was there and watched it fall. NO EXPLOSIONS!

[RainierTruckie]

Actually Lance, I'm guessing that you weren't there... There was considerable damage to WTC7 from the collapse. The collapse of the two towers in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM fell into their own footprints..

Nice try Chief, but you are tap dancing now. The bottom line is that in neither the official NIST theory of what happened, or the "conspiracy" theory of what happened, did the WTC 1 & 2 collapses play a role in the collapse of WTC 7 from the standpoint of "buildings falling on top of one another".

Your claim...

WTC7 failed because two very large skyscrapers fell on it

...is totally false, and I'm astounded that you are actually trying to debate this point.

WTC7 was only 300 feet from the base of WTC.

300 feet from the base of "WTC"? Which WTC Chief? The NIST report states that "None of the large pieces of debris from WTC 2 (the south tower) hit WTC 7 because of the large distance between the two buildings. ", yet if a completely uninformed person were to read your statement, they would get the impression that both towers 1 & 2 toppled over, landed on top of building 7, and caused it's eventual collapse. We both know no such thing happened.

When the North Tower collapsed, it collapsed straight down, in a manner parallel with the forces of gravity. Yes the collapse created a debris cloud of pulverized material in mid air that landed outside the footprint of the building, and some of that debris hit WTC 7. I posted a section from the NIST FAQ that addressed this...

The debris caused structural damage to the southwest region of the building—severing seven exterior columns—but this structural damage did not initiate the collapse

Debris hit WTC 7 but it did not cause the collapse. The NIST theory asserts that fire did...

Would WTC 7 have collapsed even if there had been no structural damage induced by the collapse of the WTC towers?
Yes. Even without the structural damage, WTC 7 would have collapsed from the fires that the debris initiated. The growth and spread of the lower-floor fires due to the loss of water supply to the sprinklers from the city mains was enough to initiate the collapse of the entire building due to buckling of a critical column in the northeast region of the building.

http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/f...qa_082108.html

... and if it was indeed fire that caused WTC 7's collapse, then we are back to square one; that this collapse of a high rise structure due to fire was totally unprecedented in history.

So a high rise structure that was not hit by aircraft suffers total collapse "due to fire" on a day when terrorists are clearly attacking other buildings with aircraft, and the investigators fail to test that building for explosive residue.

Even in your rosy view of the world this should be viewed as a monumental blunder.

[FWDbuff]

So RanierDoofus....What do you have to say to the FACT that George was THERE, and witnessed the collapse of #7 with his own two eyes and ears?

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Lance, buddy. Change the subject for a minute. I'm with you conpsracy guys on this one:

THE KENNEDY/LINCOLN CONSPIRACY THEORY

Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846.
John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946.

Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860.
John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960.

The names Lincoln and Kennedy each contain seven letters.

Both wives lost their children while living in the White House.

Both Presidents were shot on a Friday.

Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy.
Kennedy's secretary was named Lincoln.

Both were succeeded by Southerners called Johnson.

Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808.
Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908.

John Wilkes Booth, who assassinated Lincoln was born in 1839.
Lee Harvey Oswald, who assassinated Kennedy was born in 1939.

Both assassins were known by their three names, each consisting of 15 letters in total.

Booth ran from the theatre and was caught in a warehouse.
Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theatre.

Booth and Oswald were assassinated before their trials.

Lincoln's name has 7 letters
Kennedy's name has 7 letters

In Lincoln's & Kennedy's names the vowels & consonants fall in exactly the same place in the order c, v, c, c, v, c, c

War was thrust upon Lincoln almost immediately after inauguration
War was thrust upon Kennedy almost immediately after inauguration

Lincoln ordered the Treasury to print its own money
Kennedy ordered the Treasury to print its own money

International bankers may have arranged the assassinations of Lincoln and Kennedy

Lincoln gave blacks freedom and legalized equality
Kennedy enforced equality for blacks

Lincoln delivered the Gettysburg Address on November 19, 1863
Kennedy was assassinated on November 22, 1963

Lincoln was loved by the common people and hated by the establishmen- Kennedy was loved by the common people and hated by the establishment

Andrew Johnson's name has 13 letters
Lyndon Johnson's name has 13 letters

Lincoln was sitting beside his wife when he was shot
Kennedy was sitting beside his wife when he was shot

Rathbone, who was with Lincoln when he was shot, was injured (by being stabbed)
Connally, who was with Kennedy when he was shot, was injured (by being shot)

Rathbone's name has 8 letters
Connally's name has 8 letters

Lincoln's wife held his head in her lap after he was shot
Kennedy's wife held his head in her lap after he was shot


None of these issues were addressed in the Warren Commission or the House Select hearings or reports. I see that this is a government coverup at the highest level. I'll work with you on this one so that truth gets out! Call me.

[ThNozzleman]

Building # 7 was not hit by a plane. Three towers were pulverized into dust.

Asshat: The Towers were not "pulverized into dust." Tons upon tons of steel, concrete, and other materials rained down on everything around them.

When have you ever seen a building collapse behave that way?

Asshat: When was the last time two skyscrapers with the unique construction features of the Towers were hit by two large jets fully loaded with fuel? Are you going to ignore physics, simply because this is the first time something like this happens? Where would we be if we ignored the hard facts and blamed every disaster on magical flying space monkeys? I'll wager that smarter people than you will definitely take into account the performance of the Towers after the attack the next time a building that large is designed. Of course, you keep on blaming it on flying space monkeys sneaking into the Towers with TNT.

He talks about credible evidence, yet he ognores the fact that I was there and watched it fall. NO EXPLOSIONS!

Asshat: The above statement by my educated and experienced friend is all I need. It's time to move beyond the disbelief and accept the facts: Large buildings weakened by fire and impact damage can and will collapse. We've known this for over a hundred years. Where the hell have you been??

[BryanLoader]

Lance, buddy. Change the subject for a minute. I'm with you conpsracy guys on this one:

THE KENNEDY/LINCOLN CONSPIRACY THEORY

Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846.
John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946.

Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860.
John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960.

The names Lincoln and Kennedy each contain seven letters.

Both wives lost their children while living in the White House.

Both Presidents were shot on a Friday.

Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy.
Kennedy's secretary was named Lincoln.

Both were succeeded by Southerners called Johnson.

Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808.
Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908.

John Wilkes Booth, who assassinated Lincoln was born in 1839.
Lee Harvey Oswald, who assassinated Kennedy was born in 1939.

Both assassins were known by their three names, each consisting of 15 letters in total.

Booth ran from the theatre and was caught in a warehouse.
Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theatre.

Booth and Oswald were assassinated before their trials.

Lincoln's name has 7 letters
Kennedy's name has 7 letters

In Lincoln's & Kennedy's names the vowels & consonants fall in exactly the same place in the order c, v, c, c, v, c, c

War was thrust upon Lincoln almost immediately after inauguration
War was thrust upon Kennedy almost immediately after inauguration

Lincoln ordered the Treasury to print its own money
Kennedy ordered the Treasury to print its own money

International bankers may have arranged the assassinations of Lincoln and Kennedy

Lincoln gave blacks freedom and legalized equality
Kennedy enforced equality for blacks

Lincoln delivered the Gettysburg Address on November 19, 1863
Kennedy was assassinated on November 22, 1963

Lincoln was loved by the common people and hated by the establishmen- Kennedy was loved by the common people and hated by the establishment

Andrew Johnson's name has 13 letters
Lyndon Johnson's name has 13 letters

Lincoln was sitting beside his wife when he was shot
Kennedy was sitting beside his wife when he was shot

Rathbone, who was with Lincoln when he was shot, was injured (by being stabbed)
Connally, who was with Kennedy when he was shot, was injured (by being shot)

Rathbone's name has 8 letters
Connally's name has 8 letters

Lincoln's wife held his head in her lap after he was shot
Kennedy's wife held his head in her lap after he was shot


None of these issues were addressed in the Warren Commission or the House Select hearings or reports. I see that this is a government coverup at the highest level. I'll work with you on this one so that truth gets out! Call me.

You forgot George that both Lincoln and Kennedy had fathered children and had 4 limbs at the time of their assasination. Also the Union had volunteers from New Mexico during the civil war and Roswell New Mexico had a visitation from ETs and a flying saucer. Coincidence? I think not.

[ThNozzleman]

You forgot George that both Lincoln and Kennedy had fathered children and had 4 limbs at the time of their assasination.

Holy ****! Weren't they both wearing nice suits, too?

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Holy ****! Weren't they both wearing nice suits, too?

I think we are on to something here.