Are you kidding me?

[FFTrainer]

http://www.firehouse.com/news/2001/3...efighters.html

Someone please read this article and tell me I misread it. First off, stealing Gasoline from your own FD then using it to commit an act of ARSON which in turn led to the death of an innocent woman?? Where exactly does a 15 year old get the 'nuts' to do this? (My guess is the lovely members of our news media!) I realize you don't judge a whole by a few, but to think that Juniors are arguing in their forums about being entitled to leave school for a job, and to have the responsibilities of operating apparatus, having lights on their POV, wearing an SCBA.

Sorry juniors (and all FF's)out there, but it is acts like this that will constantly have the fire service fighting uphill battles. I know these are just 2 IDIOTS, but unfortunately you (and all of us are judged by our most recent bad decision, rarely by the string of good ones).

[George Wendt, CFI]

By now, you guys know my whole schtick about volunteer fire fighter arsonists, so I won't repeat it.

On many of the jobs I have had where we have locked up a FF, the gasoline, flares and whatever else they used was taken from the firehouse. This is not rare or shocking.

[FFTrainer]

George -- Definitely not shocked, but regardless of the number of times, it still infuriates me! Especially at 15 years old!

Thanks for the input!

[LisbonTrainingOfficr]

George,
Are you implying that there are no career fire arsonists out there?
Stay safe

[xenophon13]

Guys we need to get off this who career -v- volly rivalry thing. I am both a career and member of a volly fire dept, and to be perfectly honest, if you gave the volunteer the same equipment we have on the career dept. they would do a better job. The vast majority of volunteer firefighters are extremely dedicated, obivioulsy they are not in it for the money. There are people on career dept as well as volly depts who are guilty of setting fires to have something to do. I am not about to try to defend those kids, they screwed up big time and they need to have the book thrown at them, people like them give a black eye to ALL firefighters not just volunteers.

[pyroknight]

Good point X! When volunteers get burned out, they fade away. When career guys get burned out, they keep showing up physically, just not mentally or "heart-wise." I've always promised myself when it stopped being fun I would find a less important line of work. Luckily I still LOVE goin' ta work!

[E_man9RFD]

This news is quite disheartening. The mind of a firesetter is a curious one, to put it kindly. Every time I think that the "light 'em and fight 'em" brigade has disappeared, someone from it's deplorable ranks strikes. These types of people have plagued us for generations, and the comment about how the juniors went about their misdeed is not uncommon is unfortunately all too accurate. I would like to hear more details of the case, though.

My heart goes out to the family of the victim, and all of us in the fire service. For it is we who are supposed to save lives, not take them. Overall, we are the ones who will feel the repercussions from their actions.

------------------
AAD
Eng. Co. 9
RFD

"In all of us there are heroes... speak to them and they will come forth."

"In order for us to achieve all that is demanded of us, we must regard ourselves as greater than we are."

[chiefgebel]

i am sorry. i am a well respected junior firefighter in my department, but to blame what two idiots did on all juniors that is bs. basically you are implying that if it were two forty five year old career firefighters it would have been ok. you can not blame everything bad that happens on juniors. we make your job a hell of a lot easier.

[George Wendt, CFI]

Lisbon, don't be an idiot and try to start a volly v. career thing where none was mentioned or implied. If you have read anything about the approximately 12 times I have posted on this subject, you would have seen that in my personal experience, me, personally, myself, my agency has locked up 33 volunteer fire fighters in 16 years for arson-related offenses.

Are there career fire fighters who get locked up for arson? Most certainly and anybody who says otherwise is either a liar or has some poor information. But I think you will find in virtually every study that has ever been compiled, this is a problem that effects far more volly departments than career departments. Run a search on FIREDOC or at the LRC at the NFA for several good studies on this phenomenon. Do your research and have your facts before you try to start a nonsensical argument that you cannot win.

BTW Xeno, IN northern NJ, the volly departments have equipment that is leaps and bounds better than most if not all career departments. I think one of the reasons for the problem here is the proximity to the major urban centers and the sheer number of fires there. You look at the evening news almost any night and you'll see the story about the 2nd alarm in Brooklyn, or the third alarm in Newark. These guys see dozens of working fires a year, while many vol depts almost none. Many of these arsonists are misguided, maladjusted psychotic people who set the fire for the perceived selfish thrill of fighting it and being like the big boys.

PS: Junior, calm down. It would NOT be OK if it were an older FF and nobody said that. We are talking about one incident and one set of circumstances.

[FFTrainer]

ChiefGebel -

Relax and read the post (in it's entirety) that I created. The last paragraph is as follows:

Sorry juniors (and all FF's)out there, but it is acts like this that will constantly have the fire service fighting uphill battles. I know these are just 2 IDIOTS, but unfortunately you (and all of us are judged by our most recent bad decision, rarely by the string of good ones).

Notice the ... and all FF's and ... I know these are just 2 idiots....

Don't take everything so personal. You're going to have a short and very stressful fire service career if you do!!

George - thanks for the input from your profession's point of view.