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Gamewell station Gong! Need wiring help

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  • #16
    Het DFD! That sounds perfect, the only problem is that when the speaker "trips open" and power is flowing to the speakers the gong will ring on every spoken word from the dispatcher I would assume. That would be VERY inconvenient LOL! I do see what your sayin' though it makes sense. I gotta find a way to isolate the inital "alert" tone to get something to trip at that particular point and that's it. Otherwise the gong would be ringing with all the radio traffic. Does this concern make sense? Thanks Jason

    Comment


    • #17
      You need a relay with an adjustable timer...it will only work with specific tone from the radio dispatch. The Timer will only set the gong off and will not affect the speakers....we set our timer to .0050 sec which tripped the bell every time the dispatch open the informer with a tone.
      IACOJ Membership 2002
      {15}

      Mike IAFF

      The beatings will continue until the morale improves

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      • #18
        The way I would do it for the easiest way...may cost a little more, but buy an amplifier for the minitor 2 or 4 or 5 or whatever it is you use. Then buy the accessory bell for it...then take the supplied bell of and attach the gong. easiest way, because that relay is internal and all you have to do is plug it in and it will sound the gong when the tones alert. then you dont have to worry about the gonging for every word and such...and no worry about being electronics experts...quick easy and not too expensive

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        • #19
          Youngstown, OH boards has section on Gamewell

          Check out this location. There is some really good info on how to properly hook up the system. All that you really need is a contact closure to start a timing circuit. The Gamewell is supposed to operate as a supervised system (a small current is flowing unless there is an alarm) When the circuit is broken it releases the striker. http://www.youngstownfire.com/forums...8183&board=3.0

          Kuh Shise

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          • #20
            Hey Mike, that is exactly what i think i need. Where did you find such a device? Any part # or web-site where i could find such a thing? Thanks for your time

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            • #21
              Fire Dawg's idea is good too. I would think Radio Shack might have this component? Thanks

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by ffjkf55 View Post
                I do like the idea about the Minitor too. I could isolate the relay that trips when it detects our “alert” tone then use that to run the signal to the gong. However, I have no idea what that component looks like inside the minitor. Anyone know where it’s located? Or have a pic to forward? I appreciate the help greatly!
                The amplified chargers for the Minitor Pagers have external contacts that you can tap into.

                You should be able to find all the schematics you need at www.batlabs.com

                You can search their forum for things like station & pager or station alerting and get some great info. but be sure to check out these two threads in particular.

                http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34859

                http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=64836

                Based on the info in the second thread - you could probably frankenstine a MII pager and not even need the charger base if looks aren't an issue.

                If all you want is for the bell to ring once - that should be really simple. Making it ring more than once will be a bit harder.

                Good Luck.
                Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
                Stephen
                FF/Paramedic
                Instructor

                Comment


                • #23
                  I did work for this place before I got on the FD. The company is out of Memphis, TN. They are a building automation company. Go to the web site and under Kele Catalog highlight "select section", scroll down to relays and contactors. Everything you need is there, and of industrial and UL quality. They have a butt load of electrical engineers, that are available to speak to.

                  Just another idea.
                  www.Kele.com

                  http://www.kele.com/webservices/inde...aspx?section=7

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


                    The gong wiring stays HOT all the time. It operates only when the circuit is broken.

                    My advice it to contact Gamewell if they are still in business and or another fire department that still uses the gongs and get someone, probably from the communications section, that has the knowledge to help you out. At least if you had to pay them with a meal or transportation it would be better than burning up hidden wires in your station doing something that you know nothing about.



                    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

                    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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                    • #25
                      Our station had what we called the "wooper". An electronic siren that was connected to the old plectron relay box that used to key the outside siren. It was mounted in the hall outside the bunk room and could be heard throught the station. Still there were guys who could sleep through that thing. Me (and a few others) usually snapped out of our sleep whenever a first due box was announced (the box # preceeded the tones in our dispatch).

                      My grandfather was district chief in Lynn, MA. There was a Gamewell "tapper" in his house. I remember running over to the desk with the running cards when a box rang in to see where it was and who was responding.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
                        WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


                        The gong wiring stays HOT all the time. It operates only when the circuit is broken.

                        My advice it to contact Gamewell if they are still in business and or another fire department that still uses the gongs and get someone, probably from the communications section, that has the knowledge to help you out. At least if you had to pay them with a meal or transportation it would be better than burning up hidden wires in your station doing something that you know nothing about.



                        Great bit of info that most wouldn't know there Cap. and good advice.

                        As a side note if the gong is hot all the time - you simply wire it through the Normally Closed contacts on the relay vs the Normally open set. Then when the relay is energized from whatever alerting device you have - the magnet inside will open the normally closed contacts and thus breaks the power ckt.

                        That being said - I'm 100% with the Capt. about getting reliable info from someone who knows Gamewell equipment.
                        Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
                        Stephen
                        FF/Paramedic
                        Instructor

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Gamwell bell help...little progress

                          Guys the problem I'm having is my own stupidity I'm sure. I have tried tapping into the 2nd and 6the pin on the Minitor II, as suggested, in Batlab with no luck. I do have a relay wired that will trip the bell when I hook it to 2.5 or more volts DC. The pager itself will not trip my relay without a transistor wired in I would suppose. I do have a 2N3904 transistor but have no clue how to wire it in correctly to increase the voltage.

                          My next suggestion was to wire into the "alert" LED on the pager. Well no luck there either. Just will not trip my relay. I now have obtained a Minitor II Amplified charger base. I purchased a 5 pin DIN connector. According to various websites, all I needed to do was connect my relay to the 2nd and 3rd pin of the DIN connector. No luck. I popped open the amp charger and notice that there is a ground wire below the other 5 pins. I am going to try and connect to the 2nd pin and the ground and see what happens. All the info stated all I needed to do was connect my relay to the 2nd and 3rd pin on this type of charger. But this did not work. There must be something else going on with that ground wire that I mentioned. Any further thoughts? So far everyone has been great with suggestions, thanks a million.













                          Originally posted by N2DFire View Post
                          The amplified chargers for the Minitor Pagers have external contacts that you can tap into.

                          You should be able to find all the schematics you need at www.batlabs.com

                          You can search their forum for things like station & pager or station alerting and get some great info. but be sure to check out these two threads in particular.

                          http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34859

                          http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=64836

                          Based on the info in the second thread - you could probably frankenstine a MII pager and not even need the charger base if looks aren't an issue.

                          If all you want is for the bell to ring once - that should be really simple. Making it ring more than once will be a bit harder.

                          Good Luck.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            O.K.

                            First IF I read the info on that second thread correctly:
                            FYI: The 6pin DIN connector is as follows.
                            Remote Spkr: Pins 1 audio high & Pin 6 ground
                            Relay Dry Contact Closure: Pins 2 & 3 (10 watts @ 28 volts)
                            Relay Closure Timing:
                            Pins 4 & 5 Open Relay closed for 10 secs. after alert.
                            Pins 4 & 5 Shorted Relay closed until reset button is pressed.
                            Then the # 2 & 3 pins are simply a set of contacts (similar to those inside the relay)

                            AND
                            IF I read what you said correctly
                            Originally posted by ffjkf55 View Post
                            I now have obtained a Minitor II Amplified charger base. I purchased a 5 pin DIN connector. According to various websites, all I needed to do was connect my relay to the 2nd and 3rd pin of the DIN connector. No luck.
                            You are tying pins 2 & 3 from the charger base directly to the 85 & 86 poles (the coil) on the Relay and that's it.

                            THEN I see your problem.

                            Pins 2 & 3 are simply a set of "dry contacts" - i.e. they carry no current or power of their own - they are just like poles 87 & 30 on your relay.

                            You need to provide an outside Low voltage DC power source through pins 2 & 3 to activate the relay coil.

                            The reason you can't simply run the Gamewell power directly through those contactsis that it's too much for those - hence the need for the external relay.

                            Hopefully this (very quick & crude) drawing will help make things a little clearer.
                            Attached Files
                            Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
                            Stephen
                            FF/Paramedic
                            Instructor

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              um ok, like i said before, the charger/amplifier already has the relay and everything done so that the required pins are hooked up to a relay. You dont hav eto do anything but plug into the jack on the back of the amplifier. Much easier than trying to piece something together..and you can find em on ebay for like 30 buck

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by FireDawgEMT22 View Post
                                um ok, like i said before, the charger/amplifier already has the relay and everything done so that the required pins are hooked up to a relay. You dont hav eto do anything but plug into the jack on the back of the amplifier. Much easier than trying to piece something together..and you can find em on ebay for like 30 buck
                                O.K. - here's my thinking on this and I will admit I have never actually rigged one of these up - I'm working solely on theory and the information I have available.


                                1 - the internal "relay" in the base most likely isn't a true relay but rather a series of "switches" built into and IC chip somewhere

                                2 - the 10 watt @ 28 Volts works out to be about 1/3 of an Amp current capacity. Recalculated for 12 volts that equals about 0.8 Amps current capacity.

                                3 -
                                Originally posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
                                The gong wiring stays HOT all the time. It operates only when the circuit is broken.
                                That being the case - if the Gamewell gong draws less that 0.8 Amps in this configuration, then everything is groovy and he can wire directly through the base contacts as you suggest - otherwise the base is most likely going to experience a sudden release of the "Magic Smoke" and cease to function.


                                That being said - as I went back through all these threads and re-read that the Gamewell gong is also 12VDC then the above diagram could be modified slightly to the following.



                                For the added cost of the single extra relay - a little "over engineering" is cheap insurance in this case.
                                Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
                                Stephen
                                FF/Paramedic
                                Instructor

                                Comment

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