poor moral

[newguy]

i am having trouble dealing with members on my shift. being a younger member of my company i have a hard time dealing with older members and poor moral. they have a negative effect on members of the company. any ideas on how to make improvements in moral among fellow brothers

[FLAME5]

YA NOW BROTHER YOU HAVE STUMPED ON ONE OF THE MAJOR PROBLEMS OF STATION LIFE. ALOT OF THE OLDER GUYS (REMEMBER NOT ALL OF THEM ARE LIKE THIS) ARE JUST TIRED OF THE PRESENT ADMINISTRATION'S CURRENT RULES OR LACK OF, FURTHERMORE THEY FEEL THEY ARE NOT BEING HERD ON WHAT EVER ISSUES THEY HAVE. THE BAD ATTITUDE BEING THE RESULT OF.
OR.........
WHAT I HAVE COME ACROSS ALOT IS THE I DON'T GIVE A $hIT ATTITUDE I AM A FEW YEARS (WHAT EVER TIME???) FROM MY RETIREMENT.


A BETTER MORE ESTABLISHED (CONSISTANT) LINE OF COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE GRUNTS AND THE ADMINISTRATION NEEDS TO BE DEFINED FIRST.

REALLY I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO EXCEPT TO STAY AWAY FROM THE SECOND TYPE OF PERSON. TROUBLE USUALLY FOLLOWS THIS PERSON.

BUT IM SURE OTHERS HAVE BETTER IDEAS
GOOD LUCK!

[This message has been edited by FLAME5 (edited 02-21-2001).]

[redmist]

In my squad, rookies are frequently ragged on. It's not maliscious, it's just good old fun.

However, if you are having more serious problems, I think that it would be wise to just sit down with anyone you are having a conflict with, and have a civilized conversation. Talk about what the problem is and how to make a solution that both people like.

------------------
redmist
CFR, Bard EMS

[LT334]

Newguy, I've had to deal with this problem many times in the past in different industries. Unfortunatly, a lot of what will "fix" the problem is out of your hands. The veterans must feel like they are a part of the organization, they must feel as though what they say is heard by administration. Therefore they will feel as though they have "stock" in the organization. Like I said, a lot of this is out of your hands. However, as far as advice for you, I would strive to keep your moral up, show them you care, show them you have high moral. You may get picked on at first, this is common, but you may be able to bring others around you up to your level. Good Luck

[This message has been edited by LT334 (edited 02-22-2001).]

[FyredUp]

It is human nature to **** and moan. Do not let them drag you down. Do your job and if possible, when the ragging starts remove yourself or don't get sucked into it. If you are more than a one station department perhaps you will only be there a year with them. Find things to do to keep busy, maintain the tools on the rigs, or study or whatever.

By the way, in my experience, the less you say about anything your first year the better off you are. I absolutely would not talk to these guys about their attitude. If they care so little about being obviously negative what hope do you as a newbie have of changing their short timers mind?

You control your own morale.

Take care and stay safe,

FyredUp

[gunnyv]

Gotta agree with FyredUp on this one. Probies need to use their eyes and ears (and hands for doing dishes). Not everyone in the firehouse is as enlightened as your brothers on this site. The best thing is to keep busy and stay out of trouble until you're off probation, minimum. You'll learn who you can trust to talk to about this as you get to know the guys better, and they get to know you. Hang in there.

[jimthefireman]

Newguy I can relate! I joined at 18 and nearly 29 years later I still find myself remembering clearly the feelings of my driving enthusiasm being blunted against the indifference and apathy of the old timers. It is said that good decisions come from experience and experience comes from bad decisions. If you are amenable to learning from other peoples bad decisions (mine for example) instead of living through your own, there is some excellent advice here. While you are new you have to find outlets for your enthusiasm that will not grate on those around you. There will be times you will depend on them, possibly for your life but more certainly for your ability to progress in this most demanding and rewarding of jobs. This is the right time for you to cut a low profile. The old hands already know you can climb more stairs, run faster and do it for longer than they can. Thinking about this when they are finding their body is letting them down and they are going to be soon leaving this job that has been so much of their life for so long does nothing to make them feel good. Rubbing it in (even if it was never your intention to do so)is not to your advantage. The old guys, even the complete write offs for whom euthanasia seems the only sensible option have had their time when they were young and keen too. They have been and done all the things that you have before you and at times have given their all to something that meant a lot to them only to see it trivialized by people who were never part of the brotherhood (and now sisterhood) that we all share. This is not an excuse for their cynicism, but rather an explanation for it. If you manage to do your job quietly and well and win their grudging respect, I guarantee that eventually you will hear about things that they experienced that would make a Saint bitter and twisted. This is the time for you to take the crap, deserved or not, that they dish out and give back only smiles and respect. If nothing else it will keep them wondering what you are up to! Get a bit of "money in the bank" in terms of putting up with the crap so if ever you do go to the Captain (or whoever) with a complaint, everyone will know you are not a whiner and there must be something to it or you would not have bought it up. Read up everything you can, watch carefully for the things that these guys individually can teach you and don't take offence if they won't share their knowledge straight away. They already know you want to learn but they have to be reassured that passing on their knowledge to you will not be to their disadvantage. You will not disrespect them if they can't find the right words to explain things they do instinctively or make minor errors in department procedure or even contradict each other. Human beings are the most complex objects in the universe and what are known as "People Skills" are the most important things you will ever learn. There is some crap you should not have to put up with, things like your honesty you can defend to the hilt. Use your best judgement and know that despite the best advances of medical science there is no cure for the common birthday. One day (God willing) you will be one of those grumpy old guys too! Good luck with it
Jim Maclean
Auckland New Zealand

[Smoke286]

Wow Jim ,thats a lot of words to waste on a rookie, think he's litening? only kidding
Newguy some of those old guys can and probably will protect your behind in some very difficult situations, If they wanna bitch and moan, letem they've earned it. One of these days you will have earned the right to do a little complaining yourself.

[klingerjr33]

usually in this situation what i've found that works with the other junior firefighters i run with is just a simple couple of sentences that always seem to get them back in order.
"IF ALL YOU'RE GOING TO DO IS B**CH AND MOAN, AND NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT THE PROBLEM. EITHER GET OUT OF FACE OR GET ENOUGH BALLS AND GO COMPLAIN TO THE OIC."
now i don't know how well this works with other people and other stations but it always works with the other junior firefighters in my station.
just my two cents.
whatever you decide to do just make sure it's the right one and you don't get burned if something goes down.
Robert A. Klinger, Jr.
Junior Fire Fighter

[Adler]

FLAME5: This is not meant to offend you, so don't take it the wrong way. Am just trying to help, please don't use all capital letters when you write. Old unspoken rule is that if you are using capital letters, you are yelling. But, probably the biggest thing is that it makes the post harder on the eyes to read. Thank you.

Newguy: I would try to talk to the individuals and let them know that you do not want to listen to them gripe and complain. But, that probably is not prudent, so do what I use to do before I got a Admin job, walk away.

Good Luck, and don't let them break your spirit. I don't think that is their intentions.