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  • ekhaber
    replied
    residency

    I am the President of Cicero Illinois Local 717. We fought our residency requirement all the way to the Illinois Supreme Court and won for our local and all municipalities with a population under one million in Illinois. We now have a twenty five mile radius. Many other locals have used our decicion favorable in their residency fights. It was hard fought and cost hundreds of thosands of dollars but well worth it.
    The decision is on our web site at the end of the about us link. The case is

    IAFF Local 717 v Town of Cicero March 31, 2003 (First District Appellate Court)

    Our web site is

    www.ciceroiaff717.com

    Leave a comment:


  • dday05
    replied
    We can live up to 7 miles away from the city limits. I'm not going to give a yes or no answer to the residency law that has been passed in our state,but I will say our personnel don't have any intentions of moving atleast I don't think they do,we have 15 fulltime ff and a chief,we have a 4 man min on a shift,with 5 guys on a shift but with vac & holidays it works out to 4 guys. With us being a small pd dept,were hurting for help when we have structure fires and just 4 people are there while you're waiting on help to arrive.So for a small dept it will be harder to deal with than the larger fd's but I guess that's what mutual aid is for.BE SAFE!!

    Leave a comment:


  • firefighter7160
    replied
    --------------
    Last edited by firefighter7160; 11-15-2007, 11:14 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • hwoods
    replied
    Ok..........

    Jasper and RFD, Thanks for the info. I see your direction, and the point about having more leverage as residents where you work makes sense. To you folks in Detroit: Has anyone asked for a Federal investigation into the City's Finances?? Laying off Firefighters and Cops while buying Escalades may be legal, but it should be investigated thoroughly anyway. There's some misdeeds out there somewhere, just waiting to be dug up.

    Leave a comment:


  • FireLt1951
    replied
    DetroitFF,

    I wrote that post back in February 2001. I had hoped that they would prevail but haven't heard anything since the suit was filed. Your right about the 2004 class, they really recieved a MAJOR screwing there.

    Leave a comment:


  • RFDACM
    replied
    Originally posted by hwoods
    I first spoke on this about...... Oh, I dunno..... Couple of hundred years ago. In my opinion, note that I did NOT say "humble opinion", since there is no humility in my attitude on this, Residency Requirements are unconstitutional. Period. Why the IAFF hasn't pushed this all the way to the supreme court is beyond me. If Harold bails, and I can grab the General President's job, it would be number 1 on my agenda.
    Reality says this will never happen. Our City would sooner go all volunteer and hire a private EMS service to do the calls. We have to fight to keep jobs and show how we can become more self-sufficent through billing and fees for services. Also faced with annual tax-cap proposals at the state level, fiscally most smaller departments would be forced to go the other way. Harold, I'm sure realizes that you'd end up with less locals and members if a hard fast law was in place. Not to mention that this would be an AMR wet dream. Theyy could swoop in as the angel of fianacila mercy, making false promises to provide EMS at a much reduced cost (already do this, but it would be more realistic). I agree with wanting more career jobs but I think its a pipe dream.

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  • jasper45
    replied
    Residency Requirements are unconstitutional. Period. Why the IAFF hasn't pushed this all the way to the supreme court is beyond me.



    It has been court tested, and ruled that there is nothing wrong with a residency rule. Being a firefighter is not a constitutional right. As far as I know, there is no mandatory fire service employment. All firefighters are employed by their own free will. If residency was a condition of employment, before you were hired, you really have no argument against it. As has been told to us many times, you are free to work anywhere you want.

    There are also a couple of different reasons as to why the IAFF has not fought it I’m sure. I know my local hasn’t fought it for three specific reasons, money, political, and bigger issues to worry about. First off, it will cost a significant amount of money to fight residency, and more than likely we will lose anyhow (the MPA has been fighting it for years, unsuccessfully). Politically speaking, it gives our local more political influence, as we are all city residents. This gives us leverage as both taxpayers, and constituents. The city council, mayor, and other elected officials need to listen to us, or risk losing our endorsement or vote. Lastly, if you have ever spent anytime at all negotiating contracts and so on, in order to get something, you need to give something up. What do you want to give up in order to have residency lifted? Pay raise? Pension benefits? Health care? Something significant will more than likely need to be coughed up.

    I live under strict residency, and it is a financial hardship. I am only stating facts as to why we still have this rule in place.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ltmdepas3280
    replied
    Originally posted by RFDACM
    In our department we have the unfortuneate case where we count on our off-duty personnel to come in to fires. In many small or mid sized departments the reality is that staffing will never allow fires to be handled by on duty crews only. While I do not like or want the residency requirement it seems to be a necessary evil. .
    We are in the same boat. Like it or not it's one way to keep a ready force close to the city. We have a requirement of living in adjacent countys which at the very most puts you 20 mile from the center of the city.

    Leave a comment:


  • hwoods
    replied
    And...............

    I first spoke on this about...... Oh, I dunno..... Couple of hundred years ago. In my opinion, note that I did NOT say "humble opinion", since there is no humility in my attitude on this, Residency Requirements are unconstitutional. Period. Why the IAFF hasn't pushed this all the way to the supreme court is beyond me. If Harold bails, and I can grab the General President's job, it would be number 1 on my agenda.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dickey
    replied
    Originally posted by RFDACM
    Wait was this a misprint? 18 or less? I live 7 miles from work and the drive is 11 minutes. If I added them it would be just on the line. Was that 180?
    Yeah, sorry...........it is the distance in mileage PLUS (not times) the time it takes to get there to equal 18 or less.

    sorry, Haven't taken my meds today yet.

    Leave a comment:


  • DaSharkie
    replied
    So who are the people in Atlantic City that want to make sure they get promoted?

    Leave a comment:


  • TruckSkipper
    replied
    SENATE, No. 1612
    STATE OF NEW JERSEY
    212th LEGISLATURE
    INTRODUCED MARCH 6, 2006

    *
    ASSEMBLY, No. 797
    STATE OF NEW JERSEY
    211th LEGISLATURE
    PRE-FILED FOR INTRODUCTION IN THE 2004 SESSION

    STATEMENT
    *
    **** This bill, would permit a municipality operating under Title 11A, Civil Service, of the New Jersey Statutes and that is either a city of the first or second class or a municipality in which casino gaming is authorized to adopt an ordinance to give resident candidates for promotions within its police or fire department special credit.* An ordinance adopted under the bill would apply only to eligible lists compiled on or after the date of final approval of the ordinance.* Under the bill's provisions, a resident candidate who attains a passing score on the competitive test for promotion within the police or fire department would be given a bonus of five points to be added, as a "residency value," to his test score.

    Leave a comment:


  • RFDACM
    replied
    In our department we have the unfortuneate case where we count on our off-duty personnel to come in to fires. In many small or mid sized departments the reality is that staffing will never allow fires to be handled by on duty crews only. While I do not like or want the residency requirement it seems to be a necessary evil. If our mutual aid departments were better staffed (all volunteers who can't get enough help themselves) it would be easier.
    My mind was changed or at least my eyes were opened after we rolled out to a third floor apt. fire and lost a couple of guys to the bus for burned victim. As we took a beating on the fire floor, I requested a vent and was told by the pump operator that we were it at the moment. We got near a window and saw the CofD operating the aerial to the roof! Shortly there was a few intown guys who arrived and got us the vent and pulled some more line to us. This all took place at 0530 hrs and the real issue was everyone responding from home in our residency radius still have a 10-15 minute response to the station, then respond to the scene.
    I live 7.1 miles from the station and depending on time of year that takes 11-20 minutes to get in. Its real easy to say,"They have to hire more firefighters" But that just is not reality.
    So, as a rule I don't believe in residency requirements for the purposes of keeping the taxpayers money in the city. I also think the points for city residents is just another case proving that they don't care about hiring the best person for the job everytime. But, I do see value in requiring reasonable residency when you are subject to recall and counted on as part of the second or third due response.

    Leave a comment:


  • DetroitFF
    replied
    Originally posted by FireLt1951
    Detroit is now facing a class action federal lawsuit because they hired only residents for the last class,even though some non-residents were higher on the list.I hope they win and I feel that they will prevail.
    I'm not sure about that Loo. The last class was Aug. '04, and it was the first one in my memory where the selection process seemed above board. They got the best candidates -- ones who scored highest on the written and physical agility tests, who had certs such as firefighter 1 and 2 and EMT (even though none of that is required). The class included many nonresidents for a change, including out of staters. But when City Council found out what the racial makeup of the class was, they tried everything they could to get the class dismissed. And we had some of our own members speak in front of Council to cancel the class.

    The class was not cancelled and they went into the field and did a great job. But when layoffs came July 1, '05, they were pink-slipped a few weeks from getting their badges. They petitioned to get their badges, but were denied and told they only had two years to get recalled whereas the laid-off guys with badges had four years. We'll never see those trialmen again, which is exactly what City Council and a faction of our fellow firefighters wanted.

    Then, to make sure such a class never happens again, City Council passed a resolution awarding 15 points (out of 100) to city residents, and an applicant has to be a city resident 18 months prior to hire to get those points. Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this Loo.


    Originally posted by Captain Gonzo
    When a firefighter, police officer, EMT or paramedic dies in the line of duty, do you think the first question on the politician's minds are "did he/she live in town?"
    Believe me, that's exactly what the first question would be in our city. And the politicians' level of compassion for that person would be based on the answer. The powers that be still haven't given up on returning our residency requirement. And they never will. I'm not saying I can't understand their reasoning, I'm just saying that is the way it is.

    Leave a comment:


  • RFDACM
    replied
    Originally posted by Dickey
    For the fire department in Altoona, we have a formula:

    distance in miles from your residence to the fire station times the time in minutes it takes to travel must equal a total of 18 or less.
    Wait was this a misprint? 18 or less? I live 7 miles from work and the drive is 11 minutes. If I added them it would be just on the line. Was that 180?

    Leave a comment:

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