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  • #16
    I may have to lean towards agreeing with RADFIRE on this one. If we do away with residency requirements, don't we increase the applicant base we can choose from? If we increase the applicant base we can choose from, don't we stand a better chance of having a higher number of 'qualified' applicants thus increasing our quality of service!

    I partially understand a certain distance away due to off-duty recalls for multiple alarm jobs, but living in the city limits is not necessarily the best solution!

    I live 1.6 miles from a vol. station that wouldn't take me as a member because at the 1.4 mile point of the 1.6 above, I leave their town and enter another, yet that station (the one that denied me) is 1st due to my neighborhood! Screwy isn't it?? I guess it applies to both vol and career.

    [This message has been edited by FFTrainer (edited 03-13-2001).]

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    • #17
      I feel the requirements are way overrated. I live in a town next to the one that I applied for, I have been a vol. there for 6 yr.s, I have fire 1&2, EMT-d, Haz-Mat tech, am a cert. fire instructor along with many other qaulifications. Yet, since at the time I applied for the test I did not live in the city I applied for, even if I lived in the city right after the test it would not count. Instead of hiring a more qualified person the town would rather hire someone from town.
      Now lets look at the test the pyhsical I took was an extremly difficult task, but the mental end was a joke. Example question- If your gauge reads 100 and you take away 30 what does it now read. hmmmmmmm let me think about this. there were only two questions that actualy pertained to fire knowledge. Now I have been told that the new test was made more to cater to minorities and females. Well I say if they can't do the same job as the rest of us don't let the door hit you on the way out, don't make it easier for people to get on, this is by no means an easy job. And by stating that they adjusted the test to make it easier to minorites and females, seems as if they feel that these people are less capable of performing the job, well I find it hard to believe that they can't do it as well as any one else. I know I got a little off subject here but civl sercive annoys the S**T out of me.

      Comment


      • #18
        Chicago Residency Rules Report

        Hey guys-
        I am the daughter of a retired firefighter of the FDNY. I am a reporter who is getting her masters right now in Chicago at the Medill School of Journalism. I am working with the Local 2 union in Chicago to do a really interesting story on residency rules in the city of Chicago. I am looking for some people willing to talk on camera about why they love/hate the residency rules here that require all firefighters to live within the city confines, despite soaring urban prices that make it especially tough on probationary firefighters to own a home, make a living, etc etc. I was wondering if you may know anyone willing to talk about this issue. I was also wondering if you had any more information on residency rules: how they came into existence, how many cities/states have them, how many have relaxed them, etc etc.

        Thanks so much! You can email me at [email protected]

        Comment


        • #19
          From what I read, Boston is going to have a big fight on their hands in teh next couple of years.

          It seems that teachers and a few other select groups of city employees are not required to live in the city. The FD and BPPA (of which Boston EMS is affiliated) have been fighting it for years.

          In March a police officer's wife was mugged in front of their house. In the city. In a rougher part of town. Because the city does not pay appropriately for its employees to afford to live in town.

          Where a decent, non-roach infested studio will run you about $2,000 per month, and where people will pay over $100,000 for a parking space NEAR downtown.

          Residency serves no useful purpose whatsoever.
          "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

          The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

          "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

          "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

          www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

          Comment


          • #20
            As mentioned earlier, Michigan has outlawed residency requirements. Now all the failing cities-Detroit, Flint, Saginaw-want to bring it back. Their argument is that if the city isn't good enough for you to live in and pay taxes in, you shouldn't work there. Detroit has a controversy right now with mayoral appointees, the Mayor is insisting that they live in the city, despite the law. The most ridiculous thing, Detroit already has an income tax for non-residents who work in the city-it's 50% of the resident tax. In addition, they are looking for all employees to take a 10% pay cut, despite the fact that a FF in Detroit makes about 70% of what I make in the suburbs. I can't imagine why anyone wants to work there as it is.

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            • #21
              I must admit. I kind of ride the fence about the residency thing. I see/understand both arguments. But, I suppose as long as you can get to work on time, does it really matter where you live? I guess not.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by gunnyv
                As mentioned earlier, Michigan has outlawed residency requirements. Now all the failing cities-Detroit, Flint, Saginaw-want to bring it back. Their argument is that if the city isn't good enough for you to live in and pay taxes in, you shouldn't work there. Detroit has a controversy right now with mayoral appointees, the Mayor is insisting that they live in the city, despite the law. The most ridiculous thing, Detroit already has an income tax for non-residents who work in the city-it's 50% of the resident tax. In addition, they are looking for all employees to take a 10% pay cut, despite the fact that a FF in Detroit makes about 70% of what I make in the suburbs. I can't imagine why anyone wants to work there as it is.
                Top, I have been to Flint. Spent a month there this year and cannot say that I blame guys for not wanting to live in one of the townships around Flint.

                And if the twit [email protected]$$ mayor of Detroit wants people to live there, perhaps he can sell off one of those Escalades he bought with city money to help them fix up a house to livable standards.

                But I digress. Again, I state taht there is no reason for residency in modern times. Just because I live in a community does not mean that I am going to respond when called back in. There are a lot of reasons that I will not get called back. Residency means squat.
                "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

                The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

                "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

                "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

                www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

                Comment


                • #23
                  Where I work, in the City of Eau Claire, did have a residency requirement that all City employees live in the city limits. They got rid of it shortly after I had to move into the City (sucks to be me) Now they have no requirement at all.

                  For the fire department in Altoona, we have a formula:

                  distance in miles from your residence to the fire station times the time in minutes it takes to travel must equal a total of 18 or less.

                  How the police and fire commission came up with that I have no clue. This actually is quite a distance when you start looking at it and actually drive the miles.

                  Seems to work out well for us.
                  Jason Knecht
                  Firefighter/EMT
                  Township Fire Dept., Inc.
                  Eau Claire, WI

                  IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
                  http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
                  EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Dickey
                    For the fire department in Altoona, we have a formula:

                    distance in miles from your residence to the fire station times the time in minutes it takes to travel must equal a total of 18 or less.
                    Wait was this a misprint? 18 or less? I live 7 miles from work and the drive is 11 minutes. If I added them it would be just on the line. Was that 180?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by FireLt1951
                      Detroit is now facing a class action federal lawsuit because they hired only residents for the last class,even though some non-residents were higher on the list.I hope they win and I feel that they will prevail.
                      I'm not sure about that Loo. The last class was Aug. '04, and it was the first one in my memory where the selection process seemed above board. They got the best candidates -- ones who scored highest on the written and physical agility tests, who had certs such as firefighter 1 and 2 and EMT (even though none of that is required). The class included many nonresidents for a change, including out of staters. But when City Council found out what the racial makeup of the class was, they tried everything they could to get the class dismissed. And we had some of our own members speak in front of Council to cancel the class.

                      The class was not cancelled and they went into the field and did a great job. But when layoffs came July 1, '05, they were pink-slipped a few weeks from getting their badges. They petitioned to get their badges, but were denied and told they only had two years to get recalled whereas the laid-off guys with badges had four years. We'll never see those trialmen again, which is exactly what City Council and a faction of our fellow firefighters wanted.

                      Then, to make sure such a class never happens again, City Council passed a resolution awarding 15 points (out of 100) to city residents, and an applicant has to be a city resident 18 months prior to hire to get those points. Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this Loo.


                      Originally posted by Captain Gonzo
                      When a firefighter, police officer, EMT or paramedic dies in the line of duty, do you think the first question on the politician's minds are "did he/she live in town?"
                      Believe me, that's exactly what the first question would be in our city. And the politicians' level of compassion for that person would be based on the answer. The powers that be still haven't given up on returning our residency requirement. And they never will. I'm not saying I can't understand their reasoning, I'm just saying that is the way it is.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        In our department we have the unfortuneate case where we count on our off-duty personnel to come in to fires. In many small or mid sized departments the reality is that staffing will never allow fires to be handled by on duty crews only. While I do not like or want the residency requirement it seems to be a necessary evil. If our mutual aid departments were better staffed (all volunteers who can't get enough help themselves) it would be easier.
                        My mind was changed or at least my eyes were opened after we rolled out to a third floor apt. fire and lost a couple of guys to the bus for burned victim. As we took a beating on the fire floor, I requested a vent and was told by the pump operator that we were it at the moment. We got near a window and saw the CofD operating the aerial to the roof! Shortly there was a few intown guys who arrived and got us the vent and pulled some more line to us. This all took place at 0530 hrs and the real issue was everyone responding from home in our residency radius still have a 10-15 minute response to the station, then respond to the scene.
                        I live 7.1 miles from the station and depending on time of year that takes 11-20 minutes to get in. Its real easy to say,"They have to hire more firefighters" But that just is not reality.
                        So, as a rule I don't believe in residency requirements for the purposes of keeping the taxpayers money in the city. I also think the points for city residents is just another case proving that they don't care about hiring the best person for the job everytime. But, I do see value in requiring reasonable residency when you are subject to recall and counted on as part of the second or third due response.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          SENATE, No. 1612
                          STATE OF NEW JERSEY
                          212th LEGISLATURE
                          INTRODUCED MARCH 6, 2006

                          *
                          ASSEMBLY, No. 797
                          STATE OF NEW JERSEY
                          211th LEGISLATURE
                          PRE-FILED FOR INTRODUCTION IN THE 2004 SESSION

                          STATEMENT
                          *
                          **** This bill, would permit a municipality operating under Title 11A, Civil Service, of the New Jersey Statutes and that is either a city of the first or second class or a municipality in which casino gaming is authorized to adopt an ordinance to give resident candidates for promotions within its police or fire department special credit.* An ordinance adopted under the bill would apply only to eligible lists compiled on or after the date of final approval of the ordinance.* Under the bill's provisions, a resident candidate who attains a passing score on the competitive test for promotion within the police or fire department would be given a bonus of five points to be added, as a "residency value," to his test score.
                          DKK
                          Truck Man
                          APFD


                          "Above all, an assignment to a truck company should be considered a promotion."

                          Chief John W. Mittendorf-1998

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            So who are the people in Atlantic City that want to make sure they get promoted?
                            "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

                            The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

                            "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

                            "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

                            www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by RFDACM
                              Wait was this a misprint? 18 or less? I live 7 miles from work and the drive is 11 minutes. If I added them it would be just on the line. Was that 180?
                              Yeah, sorry...........it is the distance in mileage PLUS (not times) the time it takes to get there to equal 18 or less.

                              sorry, Haven't taken my meds today yet.
                              Jason Knecht
                              Firefighter/EMT
                              Township Fire Dept., Inc.
                              Eau Claire, WI

                              IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
                              http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
                              EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                And...............

                                I first spoke on this about...... Oh, I dunno..... Couple of hundred years ago. In my opinion, note that I did NOT say "humble opinion", since there is no humility in my attitude on this, Residency Requirements are unconstitutional. Period. Why the IAFF hasn't pushed this all the way to the supreme court is beyond me. If Harold bails, and I can grab the General President's job, it would be number 1 on my agenda.
                                Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
                                In memory of
                                Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
                                Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

                                IACOJ Budget Analyst

                                I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

                                www.gdvfd18.com

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