Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse

Firehouse.com Forum Rules & Guidelines

Forum Rules & Guidelines

Not Permitted or Tolerated:
• Advertising and/or links of commercial, for-profit websites, products, and/or services is not permitted. If you have a need to advertise on Firehouse.com please contact [email protected]
• Fighting/arguing
• Cyber-bullying
• Swearing
• Name-calling and/or personal attacks
• Spamming
• Typing in all CAPS
• “l33t speak” - Substituting characters for letters in an effort to represent a word or phrase. (example: M*****ive)
• Distribution of another person’s personal information, regardless of whether or not said information is public knowledge and whether or not an individual has permission to post said personal information
• Piracy advocation of any kind
• Racist, sexual, hate type defamatory, religious, political, or sexual commentary.
• Multiple forum accounts

Forum Posting Guidelines:

Posts must be on-topic, non-disruptive and relevant to the firefighting community. Post only in a mature and responsible way that contributes to the discussion at hand. Posting relevant information, helpful suggestions and/or constructive criticism is a great way to contribute to the community.

Post in the correct forum and have clear titles for your threads.

Please post in English or provide a translation.

There are moderators and admins who handle these forums with care, do not resort to self-help, instead please utilize the reporting option. Be mature and responsible for yourself and your posts. If you are offended by another member utilize the reporting option. All reported posts will be addressed and dealt with as deemed appropriate by Firehouse.com staff.

Firehouse.com Moderation Process:
Effective immediately, the following moderation process will take effect. User(s) whose posts are determined by Firehouse.com staff to be in violation of any of the rules above will EARN the following reprimand(s) in the moderation process:
1. An initial warning will be issued.
2. A Final Warning will be issued if a user is found to be in violation a second time.
3. A 3-day suspension will be issued if the user continues to break the forum rules.
4. A 45-day suspension will be issued if the user is found to be a habitual rule breaker.
5. Habitual rule breakers that have exhausted all of the above will receive a permanent life-time ban that will be strictly enforced. Reinstatement will not be allowed – there is no appeal process.

Subsequent accounts created in an effort to side-step the rules and moderation process are subject to automatic removal without notice. Firehouse.com reserves the right to expedite the reprimand process for any users as it is deemed necessary. Any user in the moderation process may be required to review and agree to by email the terms and conditions listed above before their account is re-instated (except for those that are banned).

Firehouse.com reserves the right to edit and/or remove any post or member, at any time, for any reason without notice. Firehouse.com also reserves the right to warn, suspend, and/or ban, any member, at any time, for any reason.

Firehouse.com values the active participation we have in our forums. Please ensure your posts are tasteful and tactful. Thank you very much for your cooperation.
See more
See less

Go back to Sweden

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Go back to Sweden

    Yes I mean you Dr. Svensson.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

  • #2
    Just because he's got a different opinion about how we do things, he's not welcome here? Who's to say he doesn't have a point about some of the issues?
    Career Fire Captain
    Volunteer Chief Officer


    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

    Comment


    • #3
      Swedish firefightering

      From Sweden, a Critical View of U.S. Firefighters


      Updated: 08-28-2007 11:52:21 AM

      "I will be impolite," Stefan Svensson PhD, Swedish firefighter and Research and Development Engineer told attendees gathered at his session on international firefighting at Fire Rescue International in Atlanta.

      "I will probably tell you things you don't like to hear."

      Svensson has reason to be blunt. Sweden has had only one firefighter death in the last seven years compared to the United State's line-of-duty total of 84 this year so far.

      Of course, it's also important to note that the population of Sweden is just over 9 million compared to the United State's population of over 302 million. And that at last check, (2005) the U.S. Fire Administration found there were about 1,136,650 firefighters in the United States compared to Svensson's total of about 16,000 for Sweden.

      Despite those numbers, Sweden's record is impressive. Especially when one considers that, according to the U.S. Fire Administration, almost half of last year's 106 line of duty deaths came not from horrible accidents at the scene of raging fires - but from heart attacks.

      Svensson did not mince words as he compared the way firefighters in the United States do their jobs, compared to those in his country.

      One such difference, he said, was the way U.S. firefighters see themselves.

      He said American firefighters take pride in being heroes - sometimes putting a heroic act ahead of a safe one. He said American firefighters think it is heroic to die saving someone else's life. But, Svensson contends, "it's not ok to die from anything but old age."

      "We aren't heroes - it's a job," he told attendees. "It's not a mission - it's a job."

      Svensson said firefighter training in the two countries is also very different. He said Swedish firefighters are given training grounded in science enabling them to understand the fire.

      "We want them (firefighters) to understand physics, chemistry and how to handle basic situations," he said.

      He said instead of teaching 'use a lot of water on the fire, the more the better,' firefighters should be trained to ask 'why is it burning and how do we put it out in a safe way?'

      American firefighters, Svensson said, are interested in ways of getting out of trouble, rather than avoiding trouble in the first place.

      Svensson compared Rapid Intervention Teams to seatbelts. He said just as a driver may say 'I have a seatbelt, it's ok to go faster,' a firefighter may engage in dangerous behavior on the fireground because they have the Rapid Intervention Teams to help get them to safety.

      "(There is) a dangerous situation and you are sending more people inside," he asked. "That's stupid."

      Svensson proposed some solutions to the problems he pointed out. First, he proposed that higher-ups institute monetary punishments for firefighters who are not safe. He suggested fines ranging from $100 to $900 for firefighters who fail to wear personal protection equipment, venture into places they ought not on the fire ground or fail to take a medical examination. He also suggested a bonus for firefighters who use SCBA.

      He said American firefighters must encourage safe behavior, rather than heroic deeds, change the way they train, and change unrealistic attitudes about firefighting.

      "It's not about getting to the scene at any cost. It's about getting home."


      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO-IJ7EYwDE
      Last edited by coldfront; 08-28-2007, 02:02 PM.
      Always a day late and a dollar short!

      Hillbilly Irish!

      Comment


      • #4
        I just read the article; Mikey, I'm with you.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks for your insight!



          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO-IJ7EYwDE
          Always a day late and a dollar short!

          Hillbilly Irish!

          Comment


          • #6
            This idiot should stick to making furniture and meatballs.



            We had a few sweedish firemen vist the firehouse...they told us flat out they don't see fire and they don't do what we do. We traded explanations of how they operate and how we operate. They were from the 4th Largest city in Sweeden

            Needless to say we come from very different worlds and this moron with a doctorate doesn't know the first thing about American firemen and what we do or don't think.

            It is rare to see such ignorance from a Doctor...but not unprecedented.

            I too will be impolite Dr. You are an ignorant coward who wouldn't amount to the biggest POS in my deptartment! F-%* off!

            FTM-PTB
            Last edited by FFFRED; 08-28-2007, 02:14 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by coldfront View Post
              From Sweden, a Critical View of U.S. Firefighters


              Updated: 08-28-2007 11:52:21 AM

              "I will be impolite," Stefan Svensson PhD, Swedish firefighter and Research and Development Engineer told attendees gathered at his session on international firefighting at Fire Rescue International in Atlanta.

              "I will probably tell you things you don't like to hear."

              Svensson has reason to be blunt. Sweden has had only one firefighter death in the last seven years compared to the United State's line-of-duty total of 84 this year so far.

              Of course, it's also important to note that the population of Sweden is just over 9 million compared to the United State's population of over 302 million. And that at last check, (2005) the U.S. Fire Administration found there were about 1,136,650 firefighters in the United States compared to Svensson's total of about 16,000 for Sweden.

              Despite those numbers, Sweden's record is impressive. Especially when one considers that, according to the U.S. Fire Administration, almost half of last year's 106 line of duty deaths came not from horrible accidents at the scene of raging fires - but from heart attacks.

              Svensson did not mince words as he compared the way firefighters in the United States do their jobs, compared to those in his country.

              One such difference, he said, was the way U.S. firefighters see themselves.

              He said American firefighters take pride in being heroes - sometimes putting a heroic act ahead of a safe one. He said American firefighters think it is heroic to die saving someone else's life. But, Svensson contends, "it's not ok to die from anything but old age."

              "We aren't heroes - it's a job," he told attendees. "It's not a mission - it's a job."

              Svensson said firefighter training in the two countries is also very different. He said Swedish firefighters are given training grounded in science enabling them to understand the fire.

              "We want them (firefighters) to understand physics, chemistry and how to handle basic situations," he said.

              He said instead of teaching 'use a lot of water on the fire, the more the better,' firefighters should be trained to ask 'why is it burning and how do we put it out in a safe way?'

              American firefighters, Svensson said, are interested in ways of getting out of trouble, rather than avoiding trouble in the first place.

              Svensson compared Rapid Intervention Teams to seatbelts. He said just as a driver may say 'I have a seatbelt, it's ok to go faster,' a firefighter may engage in dangerous behavior on the fireground because they have the Rapid Intervention Teams to help get them to safety.

              "(There is) a dangerous situation and you are sending more people inside," he asked. "That's stupid."

              Svensson proposed some solutions to the problems he pointed out. First, he proposed that higher-ups institute monetary punishments for firefighters who are not safe. He suggested fines ranging from $100 to $900 for firefighters who fail to wear personal protection equipment, venture into places they ought not on the fire ground or fail to take a medical examination. He also suggested a bonus for firefighters who use SCBA.

              He said American firefighters must encourage safe behavior, rather than heroic deeds, change the way they train, and change unrealistic attitudes about firefighting.

              "It's not about getting to the scene at any cost. It's about getting home."


              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO-IJ7EYwDE
              the video posted,is great,funny one.

              now concerning the article,and from my point of view it is a total lack of respect towards the US fire service.each country has its way of dealing with firefighting.

              if he wanted to "help" someone with his article and his advice,for me,after reading it,i just think he is a man who claims to know everything.
              "sauver ou périr"

              "courage et dévouement"

              2 french mottoes in french fire service.

              Comment


              • #8
                HotTrotter, you aren't Sweedish, are you?!?!?!?!
                AJ, MICP, FireMedic
                Member, IACOJ.
                FTM-PTB-EGH-DTRT-RFB-KTF
                This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by coldfront View Post
                  From Sweden, a Critical View of U.S. Firefighters


                  Updated: 08-28-2007 11:52:21 AM

                  "I will be impolite," Stefan Svensson PhD, Swedish firefighter and Research and Development Engineer told attendees gathered at his session on international firefighting at Fire Rescue International in Atlanta.

                  "I will probably tell you things you don't like to hear."

                  Svensson has reason to be blunt. Sweden has had only one firefighter death in the last seven years compared to the United State's line-of-duty total of 84 this year so far.

                  Of course, it's also important to note that the population of Sweden is just over 9 million compared to the United State's population of over 302 million. And that at last check, (2005) the U.S. Fire Administration found there were about 1,136,650 firefighters in the United States compared to Svensson's total of about 16,000 for Sweden.

                  Despite those numbers, Sweden's record is impressive. Especially when one considers that, according to the U.S. Fire Administration, almost half of last year's 106 line of duty deaths came not from horrible accidents at the scene of raging fires - but from heart attacks.

                  Svensson did not mince words as he compared the way firefighters in the United States do their jobs, compared to those in his country.

                  One such difference, he said, was the way U.S. firefighters see themselves.

                  He said American firefighters take pride in being heroes - sometimes putting a heroic act ahead of a safe one. He said American firefighters think it is heroic to die saving someone else's life. But, Svensson contends, "it's not ok to die from anything but old age."

                  "We aren't heroes - it's a job," he told attendees. "It's not a mission - it's a job."

                  Svensson said firefighter training in the two countries is also very different. He said Swedish firefighters are given training grounded in science enabling them to understand the fire.

                  "We want them (firefighters) to understand physics, chemistry and how to handle basic situations," he said.

                  He said instead of teaching 'use a lot of water on the fire, the more the better,' firefighters should be trained to ask 'why is it burning and how do we put it out in a safe way?'

                  American firefighters, Svensson said, are interested in ways of getting out of trouble, rather than avoiding trouble in the first place.

                  Svensson compared Rapid Intervention Teams to seatbelts. He said just as a driver may say 'I have a seatbelt, it's ok to go faster,' a firefighter may engage in dangerous behavior on the fireground because they have the Rapid Intervention Teams to help get them to safety.

                  "(There is) a dangerous situation and you are sending more people inside," he asked. "That's stupid."

                  Svensson proposed some solutions to the problems he pointed out. First, he proposed that higher-ups institute monetary punishments for firefighters who are not safe. He suggested fines ranging from $100 to $900 for firefighters who fail to wear personal protection equipment, venture into places they ought not on the fire ground or fail to take a medical examination. He also suggested a bonus for firefighters who use SCBA.

                  He said American firefighters must encourage safe behavior, rather than heroic deeds, change the way they train, and change unrealistic attitudes about firefighting.

                  "It's not about getting to the scene at any cost. It's about getting home."


                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO-IJ7EYwDE
                  Hey Doc! We also have NFPA 1403, which forbids the use of accelerants in setting a controlled burn. So nice to see you guys follow safety procedures.
                  AJ, MICP, FireMedic
                  Member, IACOJ.
                  FTM-PTB-EGH-DTRT-RFB-KTF
                  This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This guy is not an idiot. This guy did not insult fire fighters. He expressed his opinion of the American fire service in general. This is nothing more than a cultural difference.

                    Of course Swedish FF do not see the fire that many of you do. They are one of the most aggressive nations in the world when it comes to preventing fires. Their fire fighting culture is different than ours. For example, their training includes alot of information about the science of fire. The purpose is to understand fire from a scientific standpoint. I realize that science class is not as exciting as humping hose into a living room fire, but there is certainly some validity to a science-based training curriculum. Look at some of the LODD incidents over the past several years, in at least some of these cases, a more thorough understanding of the science of fire may have prevented the incident. I'm not giving examples because that is not the point.

                    The point is that many US fire fighters are totally ignorant to fire dynamics. Fire is not a "beast" as some describe it. It is a completely predictable scientific phenomenon. Given the same exact conditions, it will burn the same way every time. Understanding the science of fire and recognizing that there has never been two fires with the same conditions ever, would allow the fire fighter to possibly apply the science to the situation and recognize when something bad is likely to happen. You can all think of LODD's or even fires where this was an issue.

                    Some of you are no better than street thugs. When someone disagrees with you or speaks ill of the fire service, you translate that to be "disrespect" and want to fight.

                    For the record, I believe that fighting fire in the US using Swedish methods would not work. I also believe that the good doctor does not have a good understanding of the traditions of the US fire service. I also believe he is clearly an advocate for the Swedish fire service.

                    But I do believe there may be some validity to some of his points.
                    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
                      This guy is not an idiot. This guy did not insult fire fighters. He expressed his opinion of the American fire service in general. This is nothing more than a cultural difference.

                      The point is that many US fire fighters are totally ignorant to fire dynamics. Fire is not a "beast" as some describe it. It is a completely predictable scientific phenomenon. Given the same exact conditions, it will burn the same way every time. Understanding the science of fire and recognizing that there has never been two fires with the same conditions ever, would allow the fire fighter to possibly apply the science to the situation and recognize when something bad is likely to happen. You can all think of LODD's or even fires where this was an issue.

                      Some of you are no better than street thugs. When someone disagrees with you or speaks ill of the fire service, you translate that to be "disrespect" and want to fight.

                      For the record, I believe that fighting fire in the US using Swedish methods would not work. I also believe that the good doctor does not have a good understanding of the traditions of the US fire service. I also believe he is clearly an advocate for the Swedish fire service.

                      But I do believe there may be some validity to some of his points.
                      VERY well said George!
                      www.euro-firefighter.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well all be, another foreign know-it-all expert on American firefighting. Although he has never once fought a fire in a large urban setting here in the United States.
                        Our firefighting would be a simple walk in the park if we didn't have row housing, tenement laws, balloon construction, grandfather clauses allowing code deviation, and the list goes on. Hell, if we all had concrete block houses such as Sweden, there wouldn't be the need for a fire department-let the contents burn out, sweep them up, put in a new window and move in.
                        I guess a country that has never had a hero would stoop to the level of bashing others.
                        Given the same exact conditions, it will burn the same way every time.
                        Well I guess then there would be no need for fire investigators; oh wait, when was the last time you saw the exact same conditions?
                        Last edited by SPFDRum; 08-28-2007, 02:44 PM.
                        My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
                        "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
                        George Mason
                        Co-author of the Second Amendment
                        during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
                        Elevator Rescue Information

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SPFDRum View Post
                          Well I guess then there would be no need for fire investigators; oh wait, when was the last time you saw the exact same conditions?
                          Why didn't you quote one more sentence?

                          It is a completely predictable scientific phenomenon. Given the same exact conditions, it will burn the same way every time. Understanding the science of fire and recognizing that there has never been two fires with the same conditions ever, would allow the fire fighter to possibly apply the science to the situation and recognize when something bad is likely to happen. You can all think of LODD's or even fires where this was an issue.
                          So much for intellectual honesty, huh?
                          PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            European tactis would never work here. If everything we ever went to was built in masonry construction in the last 50 years we MIGHT be able to get away with the gun-shy attitude, but in America you'd be signing the death warrants of thousands and thousands of citizens and the demolition orders for even greater numbers of buildings. And I'm sorry, I won't apologize for taking pride in the bravery of my brother firefighters or pretend like I'd look at my job the same way if we just stood outside and squirted water in through the windows.
                            In time

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SPFDRum View Post
                              Hell, if we all had concrete block houses such as Sweden,
                              Yep!! You sure do know a lot about Sweden!!!! Intellect??!!!
                              www.euro-firefighter.com

                              Comment

                              300x600 Ad Unit (In-View)

                              Collapse

                              Upper 300x250

                              Collapse

                              Taboola

                              Collapse

                              Leader

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X