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  • FyredUp
    Forum Member
    • Jul 1999
    • 12541

    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    The quesiton you asked was not merely an innocent question. You are angry because you got called on it. I inferred nothing.

    Here's why I am vigorously debating this issue, even though I agree with very little that the Dr. said. Pay attention, you may learn something:

    IMO, one of the biggest killers of FF are CLOSED MINDS! See my post just above in reference to a cultural change and see if you get it.
    George,

    Once again you presume to know me and assume that I am closed minded. That's really funny since on both my career and volunteer fire department I am considered radical and always looking for new and/or better ways to do things. You sure do like to assume things about people.

    As for my question...I had no hidden agenda and that is that. You can believe what ever you choose since you will anyways.

    George, perhaps a little anger management would help...or has your years of investigative work made you so paranoid and suspicious that nothing is as it seems but only as you preceive?

    Have a nice day.

    FyredUp
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

    Comment

    • GeorgeWendtCFI
      MembersZone Subscriber
      • Jul 1999
      • 13536

      Originally posted by FyredUp
      George,

      Once again you presume to know me and assume that I am closed minded. That's really funny since on both my career and volunteer fire department I am considered radical and always looking for new and/or better ways to do things. You sure do like to assume things about people.

      As for my question...I had no hidden agenda and that is that. You can believe what ever you choose since you will anyways.

      George, perhaps a little anger management would help...or has your years of investigative work made you so paranoid and suspicious that nothing is as it seems but only as you preceive?

      Have a nice day.

      FyredUp
      There is no anger here. I am perfectly calm. I am having quite a nice day, actually.

      I don't think I ever said you had a closed mind. It was a general comment-not directed specifically at you. Let me ask you something...when you go into a football stadium, do you think everybody there is looking at you and talking about you?

      But let me give you a little lesson. If you were asking questions simply to pose these hypothetical situations, you would have asked a series of questions. Instead, you asked one, very specific question, about something that no one had even brought up before. You see there, old boy, it is your own words that expose your real agenda. Don't worry about it, though. I'll drop it.
      PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

      Comment

      • FyredUp
        Forum Member
        • Jul 1999
        • 12541

        Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
        There is no anger here. I am perfectly calm. I am having quite a nice day, actually.

        I don't think I ever said you had a closed mind. It was a general comment-not directed specifically at you. Let me ask you something...when you go into a football stadium, do you think everybody there is looking at you and talking about you?

        But let me give you a little lesson. If you were asking questions simply to pose these hypothetical situations, you would have asked a series of questions. Instead, you asked one, very specific question, about something that no one had even brought up before. You see there, old boy, it is your own words that expose your real agenda. Don't worry about it, though. I'll drop it.
        george,

        That's it? Pretty impressive. Misinterpret what I posted. Attempt to discredit me. Make up a few more things I never said. Then while looking out from under a rock try to speak from the high ground.

        You just seem like a guy whose whole mission in life is to argue and discredit people, even if no facts to support your position are available.

        YOU have become a waste of my time and I will not post to you anymore on this topic.

        FyredUp
        Last edited by FyredUp; 08-31-2007, 06:50 PM.
        Crazy, but that's how it goes
        Millions of people living as foes
        Maybe it's not too late
        To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

        Comment

        • swarmy
          MembersZone Subscriber
          • Jan 2007
          • 115

          Originally posted by FyredUp
          george,

          YOU have become a waste of my time and I will not post to you anymore on this topic.

          FyredUp
          FyredUp- Don't worry about George... there are plenty of people around here that respect your knowledge.

          Look back through all eight pages of this thread. Here's what you'll see... a post by a ff trying to make a comment and then a post by George telling them why their wrong.

          EIGHT PAGES!!!

          He does it all the time, but I don't take it personal. It's just a forum, and I feel confident in my knowledge and skill... I'm not too worried what some guy in Jersey thinks.

          When George and I are on the same thread (and happen to agree) I actually find him to be funny .
          "...there isn't a firefighter in the free world who is forced to join this profession." -John Norman

          Comment

          • kfactor
            Forum Member
            • Jan 2003
            • 107

            Originally posted by ranger1100ky
            Take a good look around your firehouse, sport.

            Forget everything you've learned since you were a kid about what firefighting is about.

            Forget all the TV shows.

            Forget all this romanticized CRAP that's surrounded this business.

            Lose your ego.... put the machismo back in grade school where it belongs.

            And use some common sense.

            Dr. Svensson makes one heck of a good point.

            When we lose a firefighter... the reason be damned...

            WE "LOSE"... that's the KEY word in "lose a firefighter".

            When I was in this business, and looked around at the people I responded with, I couldn't find ONE... not even ONE, that I felt was 'expendable', NOR replacable.

            You seem like you take Dr. Svensson's comments as an 'affront' to your 'manhood' and 'bravery', and to that 'bravery' of all firefighters...

            If your response is indicative of the prevailing attitude toward safety within our fire service here in America... perhaps some mass dismissals from the fire service are in order. There's no room for 'ego' in the business. And there's no room for firefighters of any gender, who put machismo before life safety.

            Yes... firefighting's a noble and dangerous profession.

            Yes... sometimes I think some of the safety initiatives are either overkill, or 'bad news'.

            But even still... when the alarm goes off... job number ONE, is that whoever goes out, also comes HOME at the end of the response. Preferably in the exact same condition in which they left. Their families certainly would appreciate it...

            Our citizens sure would appreciate it too, since it is rare that a dead firefighter saves someone. A living firefighter, seems to make saves a little more often. (Yes, some firefighters die, literally trading their life for another person's life... but that's pretty rare. A lot of deaths in the fire service are accident or health related, where 'rescue of a citizen' was not the issue.)

            Frankly, Firefighter Svensson, has it RIGHT. His words aren't easy to swallow. But he's dead right.

            And he's had the evidence right in front of him. Most of us over the years have probably bought our 'America's Bravest' shirts and those nice little plaques that espouse the 'heroic tendancies' of those in the firefighting profession. Dig into your closet sometime and pull out all those 'macho' t-shirts that speak to the testicular fortitude of firefighters... then THINK about this...

            When's the last time anyone saw a commemorative poem, or prayer, for the Fire Prevention Officer? How about the Training Officer? Okay... how about the Safety Officer?? How about the Incident Commander???

            Those four positions have the most potential, to save more lives on a daily basis, than front line firefighters possibly can.

            We tell citizens that the best way to put out a fire, is not to have the dang thing in the first place...

            And then our actions and attitudes we carry right on our chests and backs, espouse how 'heroic and tough' we are? How in thunder is THAT a credible way to avoid being hypocritical?

            I'm like most that have turned out for an alarm. When I was younger, I bought hook, line, and sinker AND boat, into the romantic view of firefighters. The hero that saves the day through hell and high water... The walking triumph of bravery over raw physics.

            As the years have passed, I can't help but to think what an incredible jackass I was, to pack that attitude around with me. It damn well could've gotten me, or a fellow firefighter killed. And for what? So everyone could sing my praises as a hero posthumously? That's insane.

            Now I know that occasionally, even with all of the safety procedures in place, with all the training, dedication and effort towards firefighter scene safety... that we're going to lose people, and yes, sometimes it will be a true sacrifice on their behalf for someone else.

            I don't think we need to be planting as many firefighters as we do every year. I think some of those deaths can be prevented, while still giving the public top notch service and protection.

            I know I'd sure like to wake up one day, and find out that we've whittled the number of firefighter deaths in this country in half, or better!

            Maybe some of us don't like what FF Svensson had to say... or how he chose to say it...

            But to dismiss his words and tell him to take a flying leap, is a perfect indication that he IS correct... that there's an attitude problem in the fire service... an attitude that puts the worth of a firefighter's life, lower than anyone else's... "He died bravely trying to help people..." sounds good.

            What sounds better is, "He died of old age, after living a life of dedicated service to others."

            Be safe out there...
            Paul

            Not bad a post all. I could agree with most of that. On the Docs comments, I think I would generally agree with a fair amount of what he has to say, but I think he's off quite a bit on some of specifics. On the RIT issue, I think he's way off with the comment that U.S. firefighters take more agressive action because of it. The problem is that the U.S. fire service thinks it's going to rescue everybody and grossly overestimates its capabilities. 3000+ civilians still die in fires every year and we don't save them.

            I think most everbody has the risk aspect wrong, including the doctor. Is it a major problem associated with our LODDs, absolutely, but to think that it is not OK to die from anything accept old age is wrong is pretty far out there. The reality is that nothing is risk free and we make decisions everyday to accept some risk in exchange for some benefit. Take just driving a car, I do everything I can, but there is a fair amount of risk in that activity - what practically can most people do to avoid taking that risk? not much. If your going to avoid that risk all together, you aint' go far.

            Same issue on the fire ground, responding to/returning from, etc. - I agree, most of LODDs are absolutely preventable, but if you're shooting for the doctors zero risk approach, your never going to leave the station.

            While I agree we have major cultural problems and massive lack of understanding of manual suppression capabilities, risk assessment, etc. those that peddle the zero risk approach aren't helping the cause.

            Our job it to protect life and property. Last week we lost a 2 yr old boy in a house fire. Two of our guys just barely escaped a flashover when they were attempting to make the third floor to seach for that child when the hallway on the second floor flashed, forcing them out a window onto the porch roof.
            I don't know what the Dr. would have done but I for one would not have been able to stand there and tell the family of that little boy that we weren't going to try and get to him because he might be dead already or our lives are more important than his. That is what we are paid for or volunteer for, to do everything we can to reach a victim and save whatever life we can.
            I was very saddened to read this (I have two little girls and that hits very close to home) and have a great deal of respect for the firefighters involved. Look close at this though - the firefighters "escaped" ... "attempting" to make a search ... These guys didn't lose their lives and the firefighters that respond to the fires that take over 3000+ lives annually don't lose their lives either. We look at these guys and have a lot of respect, we don't call them cowards or whatever. However, despite their efforts, the little boy died. If we don't look down on these guys who ultimately had to back down, why do we consider bailing out on a fire that is threatening only property, no one at risk etc. as lacking some arbitrary level of "agressiveness." It's bull, the saving lives and property for most LODDs is just bull, it's just a cover. Retreat isn't necessarily cowardly. If Washington hadn't retreated at the Battle of Brooklyn, things might be a lot different today.

            I am with some of you though, the doctor paints with a pretty broad brush and I don't entirely appreciate it.
            "Live Free or Die"
            Last edited by kfactor; 08-31-2007, 09:43 PM.

            Comment

            • hwoods
              63 Years & Still Rolling
              • Jun 2002
              • 10703

              Ah HA!!!..........

              Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
              Don't worry. I only have one person on my ignore list. You aren't even close.

              So That's it!! I knew there was a reason for this lonely feeling I get when posting.........
              Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
              In memory of
              Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
              Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

              IACOJ Budget Analyst

              I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

              www.gdvfd18.com

              Comment

              • ranger1100ky
                • Aug 2007
                • 4

                Originally posted by bigfireman59
                When was the last time in history that Sweden put anything on the line for anybody? It's no suprise that the Fire service conducts themselves the same way. It is a cultural difference. Sweden can keep thier culture of remaining neutral on everything sitting back and not taking action and we will keep ours of taking action when others are in need even if it means making a sacrifice, that's the american way and what has made this country what it is. Don't worry brothers, I will come in and get you and not sit outside with my slide rule.
                Okay... since you asked...

                "Like many European powers, Sweden participated in the colonization of America that started in the 17th century. The first Swedish colony along the banks of the Delaware River was established in 1638 (see New Sweden).

                Sweden was the first country not engaged in the American Revolutionary War to recognize the young American republic. The Swedish Count Axel von Fersen was a distinguished soldier during the war, serving as an interpreter between General Rochambeau and General Washington. In 1783 the United States' Ambassador to Paris, Benjamin Franklin, and the Swedish Ambassador, Count Gustaf Philip Creutz, signed a treaty of amity and commerce."-----Source, Wikipedia... "Swedish-American Relations"

                As for what Sweden 'puts on the line'... it's about time to correct some misconceptions here... and since some of the 'braver' folks appreciate the nobility of dying in service to other people... it took me all of 1 minute on Google to find a perfect example of what Sweden's really worth.



                There you have it... evidence, not rhetoric. Swedish soldier getting killed... in Afghanistan, no less. Now, correct me if I'm wrong brothers... but ain't that the same place where our fellow Americans are also 'putting it on the line'??

                Now back to the subject...

                That's a darn good point, about this reporter's article.

                All we've heard, are the inflammatory remarks this guy made, over the course of an entire presentation.

                Those remarks by Dr. Svensson most likely WERE takien WAY OUT OF CONTEXT.

                And the decision by Firehouse magazine to publish this woman's article online OR in the magazine itself... is a very unfortunate one. There was little focus on what the guy was ostensibly addressing in his presentation...

                Improving Training, Increasing Professionalism, Increasing Safety, Improving Performance, Being cost effective in terms of time, effort, money and rescources.

                Isn't that WHY we HAVE conferences and conventions and seminars and regional and national training opportunities?? To improve those things I just listed?

                And this woman, and or her editor, think it's more important that the good Swede said 'critical or inflammatory' things?

                This story about what Dr. Svensson said, as it is presented, doesn't belong in Firehouse magazine, or any other periodical dedicated to our profession.

                The article, as written and presented, belongs in the checkout line at the supermarket with all the rest of the crap. Or better yet, in the editor's garbage can.

                That Dr. Svensson is a Swede doesn't matter. Whether he's ever pulled on the fire coat, doesn't matter. (But he HAS folks... He IS a firefighter. He gears up, gets on the truck and takes his chances) He's in the game for the same reason... reduce the toll in life and property lost by fire.. including the reduction of firefighter losses and injuries.

                Sweden, for those of you who have never checked out any of the websites regarding their fire services, actually has a pretty darn good fire service.



                In the menu at left, on the Stockholm Fire Department's page, click 'English' to review the page if you're not well-versed in Swedish. They face most of the problems we're accustomed to... and a few that many of us are not. Their buildings are a mix, of ultra-modern, and extraordinarily old. Stockholm's fire department has been in operation since 1875.

                I think it's pretty stupid, and rather unfair, to point to fire-loss statistics, and say, "Those Swedes must not be so hot! Ha!!"

                If you 'think' it IS appropriate to do so... then I have to question just what kind of business you THINK that you're in.

                There are times, you can't do anything, but put the fire out, and just accept the fact that you've attended a 'roast'. It stinks, but it happens. And let's face it... saving lives, isn't about speed, or 'firefighting skill' so much... as it is about first, getting the call IN TIME for any of our skills to do any good. If the call doesn't make it to youin time... what CAN you do??

                If you DO get the call in time... then most of the time all you have to do, is do your job safely, just like you were trained to do. Size up, decide what to do, assign your crews to locate the endangered, provide a rescue pathway and support, extricate the endangered, and take supporting action during the rescue operation to stabilize or reduce the severity of the incident. (ie, buy more time to accomplish the rescue, and increase the safety factor as much as you can with what you have available.)

                "If you need an intervention team, should you be there in the first place?" is a question reportedly posed by Svensson...

                It's a good question...

                Certainly I agree... the RIT is important to have ready to go 'anytime' an operation is ongoing. I don't care if you're cleaning the toilet at the firehouse... it never hurts to have someone to help you out if you get into a problem at ANY time.

                To suggest that the reason fire deaths are higher in Sweden, is because their firefighters don't 'put it on the line', is absurd. I don't care what country you're in... if you pull on turnouts, (if you even have em) and go out to respond to an emergency... you put it on the line and do the best you can at the time.

                The subject of this article, Dr. Svensson's presentation in Atlanta... has been covered elsewhere... and I think in a far better fashion...



                Now... while we're appraising Dr. Svensson and the Swedish Fire Service...

                Let's look at a firefighting technique, that they pioneered. A US Firefighter and former instructor at the National Fire Academy, thought so much of this technique that he flew to Sweden and had the fellows that developed this innovative strategy, show him all about it, show him how it worked 'live', and show him 'why' it worked.

                Right off the top of my head... I can think of one firefighter who died in the line of duty, who might have had a chance, had this technique been in our collective arsenals... It can be used as a defense, if you find yourself in a jam where the situation's going to hell on you... and it can be used as a method of offensive attack to get you up close and personal with the seat of the fire, at a LOWERED risk to your safety.

                They're taking on the American firefighting establishment with a precision method of dousing flames. The hot new way to save lives and burning buildings: bursts of delicate fog.


                Now one of 'our own' went over there to Sweden and learned this technique, and has increased his department's safety factor, and increased their ability to control and extinguish a fire. How would everyone like to make the 'firefighter killed by flashover' scenerio, into an endangered species?

                Sweden's made some real strides in that very thing. Great Britain's done it, using the same '3D attack' technique developed in Sweden. France had a LOAD of firefighters killed via flashovers and other 'extreme fire behaviors'... and when they took up the 3D attack technique... they started whittling down their LODDs also.

                Yeah... Sweden's really got their heads in their turnout pants... *insert a kiddingly sarcastic tone*

                They've pioneered a technique that could right now be saving lives in our ranks all across the country, if only we didn't put tradition and machismo, over the safety of ourselves and our fellow firefighters.

                Sounds to me, like we've got some catching up to do... unless we'd like to be the ones regarded as 'having our heads in our turnout pants'.

                Just as other departments around the world have learned from us... it's about time we cooled our jets and did a little learning from them.

                We're brothers and sisters, regardless of what country we live and work in. We face the same risks... the same heartaches... the same triumphs... and we're in the business for the same reason... to try to help our neighbors stick around a little longer and to do so with as little property loss and danger as possible.

                We claim to be 'professionals' whether we're paid or volunteer...

                It's about time we showed that professionalism, and took every opportunity to learn new and better ways to do our jobs... even if they go against the 'conventional wisdom'. Imagine where we'd be, if we hadn't accepted greedily, the concept of a fire engine that is self propelled, rather than horse drawn?

                Take care,
                Paul

                Comment

                • DrSvensson
                  Forum Member
                  • Sep 2007
                  • 3

                  Friends,
                  I am really really sorry if I have offended anyone. But for those of you who listened to my presentation - wasn't that the point? Didn't I make that very clear? I am well aware of that it is dangerous, and in this case it was stupid of me, to make sweeping statements. But my intention was to get a discussion going.

                  I also would like to point out that English is not my native language and also the fact that most of the discussion on the forum is about what a journalist wrote, not necessarily what I said.

                  I admire the work, effort and courage by all fire fighter - it is still a job, but it is sometimes a dangerous job. Unfortunately, zero fire fighter fatalities is an utopia - we will probably never get there but it shure is a great thought.

                  If I have offended someone and this perhaps, and only perhaps, saves the life of a single fire fighter, Swedish or American, isn't that worth it?

                  Why don't you ask your wife/husband, your children or your parents and hear what they think about this?

                  I am well aware that there are safe fire departments and there are not so safe fire departments in the world. And Sweden certainly isn't the safest, we don't have the best training, we don't have the safest houses and we don't have the best fire fighters. We have a lot to learn from each other on all levels and aspects. And I believe we do.

                  And by the way: I have been working for the Swedish fire service for more than twenty years. Yes, I have a PhD i fire science, I do science work and I am an instructor for the Swedish fire service. But I am also a fire fighter and I am on duty every fourth week. I have seen my share of fires, car accidents and civilian fatalities.

                  Most of the things that have been discussed so far on this forum, I believe I did address during my presentation (training, building constructions, technology, attitude, etc). And there are of course cultural differences that makes a lot of things almost impossible to compare between countris, regions or even fire departments. But the main problem remains - fire fighters are getting killed in the line of duty. It shouldn't be like that.

                  I am grateful that this issue was brought up on the forum - this is what development is all about. I would love to discuss the problem with each and everyone of you in person. This might seem almost impossible, but if you see me the next time I visit the US, talk to me. I would appreciate that a lot!

                  And once again, I am very very sorry if I have offended anyone.

                  Sincerely
                  Stefan

                  Comment

                  • GeorgeWendtCFI
                    MembersZone Subscriber
                    • Jul 1999
                    • 13536

                    Originally posted by FyredUp
                    george,

                    That's it? Pretty impressive. Misinterpret what I posted. Attempt to discredit me. Make up a few more things I never said. Then while looking out from under a rock try to speak from the high ground.

                    You just seem like a guy whose whole mission in life is to argue and discredit people, even if no facts to support your position are available.

                    YOU have become a waste of my time and I will not post to you anymore on this topic.

                    FyredUp
                    Yup, that's it. You know why? Because it is the truth. It shouldn't take you a long time to explain the truth.

                    As I have stated many, many times before, my mission in the fire service is to try to keep fire fighters from dying. I have convictions and stand by those convictions. Many of you mistake my defense of those convictions as something negative. If I discrfedit you, I usually post my source if it is that type of debate. So be it. I look at it as something positive. There are people on here (Noz, for one) who have similarly strong convictions that I vehemently disagree with. But, after much soul searching, I have come to respect him for his consistency and defense of those convictions.

                    You are bailing out of this debate because you can no longer support your position. Period. And that's OK.
                    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

                    Comment

                    • GeorgeWendtCFI
                      MembersZone Subscriber
                      • Jul 1999
                      • 13536

                      Originally posted by swarmy
                      FyredUp- Don't worry about George... there are plenty of people around here that respect your knowledge.

                      Look back through all eight pages of this thread. Here's what you'll see... a post by a ff trying to make a comment and then a post by George telling them why their wrong.

                      EIGHT PAGES!!!

                      He does it all the time, but I don't take it personal. It's just a forum, and I feel confident in my knowledge and skill... I'm not too worried what some guy in Jersey thinks.

                      When George and I are on the same thread (and happen to agree) I actually find him to be funny .
                      I never said that I didn't respect his knowledge. I do. I disagree with what he tried to do in this thread. That's all.

                      You are also forgetting one thing-I agree with very little that the Dr. said. The only real place that I disagree with alot of people on here is that this guy was out to disrespect and insult the US Fire Service. That was clearly not his intent. He was invited to speak at an international forum to give his views on what they are doing in Sweden to reduce LODD's. The style he chose was to contrast it to the US.

                      None of us, except the one person who posted who was there, know what his tone was, his demeanor was or his attitude was. In fact, outside of what was posted in the article, none of us even know what else he said. He clearly was not a "hired gun". He was asked to speak at a professional symposium-someplace where alternative methodolgy is usually respected.

                      Many of you act like this guy peed on the US flag or insulted your mother. Many of you also stated that there was one or two things you actually agreed with. But even if you agreed with nothing he said, the value of the speech would be in stimulating a discussion (like we have had here) towards the cultural change the Life Safety Summt advocated. (I thought it was very telling that there was a very long period of inactivity after I posted the cultural change comment).

                      Neither the US or Swedish fire service is perfect. But to state that this guy came here with the intent to spit in the face of the US Fire fighter is not right. There is some value in what he said.

                      So in that vein, yes, this guy from NJ is telling people that they are wrong.
                      PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

                      Comment

                      • Rescue101
                        Forum Member
                        • Jun 2001
                        • 8154

                        There's some value in a Tofu cake too,but it doesn't mean I'm going to make a steady diet of them. T.C.

                        Comment

                        • HotTrotter
                          Banned
                          • Feb 2007
                          • 2332

                          Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
                          I never said that I didn't respect his knowledge. I do. I disagree with what he tried to do in this thread. That's all.

                          You are also forgetting one thing-I agree with very little that the Dr. said. The only real place that I disagree with alot of people on here is that this guy was out to disrespect and insult the US Fire Service. That was clearly not his intent. He was invited to speak at an international forum to give his views on what they are doing in Sweden to reduce LODD's. The style he chose was to contrast it to the US.

                          None of us, except the one person who posted who was there, know what his tone was, his demeanor was or his attitude was. In fact, outside of what was posted in the article, none of us even know what else he said. He clearly was not a "hired gun". He was asked to speak at a professional symposium-someplace where alternative methodolgy is usually respected.

                          Many of you act like this guy peed on the US flag or insulted your mother. Many of you also stated that there was one or two things you actually agreed with. But even if you agreed with nothing he said, the value of the speech would be in stimulating a discussion (like we have had here) towards the cultural change the Life Safety Summt advocated. (I thought it was very telling that there was a very long period of inactivity after I posted the cultural change comment).

                          Neither the US or Swedish fire service is perfect. But to state that this guy came here with the intent to spit in the face of the US Fire fighter is not right. There is some value in what he said.

                          So in that vein, yes, this guy from NJ is telling people that they are wrong.
                          Exactly what I have been saying. I would add one thing, most everyone here is reacting against the Doctor based on a biased article that was NOT written by the doctor. In other words, the author of the article succeeded in stirring things up.

                          Comment

                          • nuthead
                            Forum Member
                            • Aug 2007
                            • 83

                            Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
                            The only real place that I disagree with alot of people on here is that this guy was out to disrespect and insult the US Fire Service.
                            I don't think that was his intent either. I've had to deal with people from other countries on various occasions and I've found that because of cultural differences, some things they say come across very wrong and some things I say are received in the wrong way, so I typically don't assume an insult simply because of the tone or vocabulary someone uses. Maybe I'm naive, who knows.

                            Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
                            None of us, except the one person who posted who was there, know what his tone was, his demeanor was or his attitude was.
                            True, however, the "I will be impolite" statement is an indicator of his intent. Not that being impolite is necessarily a bad thing, it just adds a bit of foreshadowing to his speech. Possibly he understands that without a "jolt", many people would simply turn a deaf ear to his ideas. However, I still take issue with the idea that saving firemen in trouble is "stupid", although I understand the intent of what he was trying to get across.

                            Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
                            There is some value in what he said.
                            Very much true. There can be value in what almost anyone says, as long as one is willing to listen with an open mind. That's doesn't mean one has to agree with the speaker. In fact, the mark of intellectual honesty is the solicitation of opposing views.

                            Comment

                            • nuthead
                              Forum Member
                              • Aug 2007
                              • 83

                              Originally posted by Rescue101
                              There's some value in a Tofu cake too,but it doesn't mean I'm going to make a steady diet of them. T.C.
                              I've always wondered, where exactly on the toe is the fu?

                              Comment

                              • n2dafyre
                                Forum Member
                                • May 2007
                                • 27

                                Originally Posted by BLSboy
                                ow about we look at a few point "Dr." Svensson has here.



                                I will not argue with this. We need a more serious take on cardiovascular health. Each FF needs to be able to pass a physical. If you do not pass, you have 6mo. to show significant improval, if you fail to do so, you are no longer a Firefighter, have fun looking for a new job. It is absurd some of the people we have fighting fires.

                                That will work just fine in the paid departments, in the volunteer service it would fail miserably.

                                Did you just really say that?..... Paid or volunteer is not an issue. There needs to be minimum standards in both physical conditioning and training. If a person has no time to train or stay in shape, maybe they should look for a new career or hobby. With the number of cardio related deaths, shouldn't we want to be in better shape. A firefighter should not have to be forced to stay in good shape. We all say we are servinmg the citizens, so are we not serving them as well if we are not in shape?

                                I won't even start on the political side of all of this.

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